EVE General Discussion

You make a huge, and untrue assumption in this entire argument. People who PVP can quite easily indulge in the industrial aspects of the game. We often do, in order to fund our EVE lifestyle. I personally have a PI toon, and a manufacturing toon.

The pure PVE I don't PVP anywhere anyhow person is a rarity. Even then, a good portion of those know they live in a shark tank, and plan accordingly.

I don't "need" the carebears to make my ships. Other PVPers are more than happy to sell me my needed ships, off their industrial toons.

OP- thank you for the thoughtful response.

You use two terms a lot (griefing and victim) and they seem to mean something different to me than they do to you. Your arguments seem to rely on your definition of those terms. Perhaps you could say what they mean for you?

I don't know, but it seems to me there is a difference between 'risk averse' and 'responsive'. 'Learning', which usually requires rising above assignations of 'blame' would be a distinguishing factor in this for me. That is, CCP took a risk, which they probably recognized as a risk when they did it, and then responded. CCP 'undocked' a change to the game and the 'lost' it. Since the game is still here and apparently thriving, they presumably followed the first rule of EVE: dont fly what you cant afford to lose. They learned from this and responded accordingly. What if instead, for instance, upon losing their 'undocked' change they had insisted that the source of having 'lost' was some wrongness in their customer base, by which they were victimized. This is another interesting thing about CCP. They do not seem to assume that their customers are stupid. That is also pretty distinctive in gaming, in my experience. They have maintained a unique game and business model for over ten years, in the face of a fairly constant argument that they should change the very things making it distinctive or they would soon be out of business. I would not categorize that as risk averse.

I am happy to say what 'grieifng' and 'victim' mean to me and I would be interested to hear your version. If you look at my post history you could find things I have written about this in the short time I have been playing. If you are so moved, of course.

You know what? I admit it, I dont care for pvp. IF high sec were changed to block any and all pvp it wouldnt bother me in the slightest. But how arogent and selfish would I have to be to want CCP to change the game, a game that thousands of players enjoy as is, just to fit the needs of me? People have diffrent view and I can promise you all this, no matter how passionate our logical your resoning is, you will never change each others views. You will always spend hours talking cirlcles around each other and end up back where you started.

The reason your reasoning is wrong is because it's insane bro. Can't you read what you write and see what the rest of the world sees ie "this guy is bonkers".

You act as if the photog was trying to rip you off, when she was just doing what people do, trying to make money and if people want to pay it, great. PVP players are jsut trying to do what they do, blow up ships in a video game without guns.

And with all this crazy stuff you are posting, you are then trying to fit it into a game situation. It's not more than the self serving "you just want me to play a certain way so you can kill me" fallacy.

It's because you are the center of your universe and you can't imagine a situation where you are just another unimportant cog in the worlds machine. No one cares how you play or whether or not you are an easy target. No one thinks you OWE them your "sacrifice" (killmail) and your beliefs are simply delusional attempts to salve your own ego.

You keep trying to understand other people but only through YOUR own limited perspective, that's one of your problems. Just like you think I want NPC corps nerfed because I want to shoot people like You. I DO NOT, my dislike of veterans in npc corps is philosophical, not greedy.

Again, don't you have any understanding of how crazy you seem?

Ad hominem attack. Proof you've lost the argument.






She thought I should have to pay $1500 for a few hours work, because that is what she needed to make her business plan work.

I simply demonstrated how her wants put no obligation on me to comply.



And that puts no obligation on me, to comply with their desires.




It is not fallacy. I'm not the one arguing for change (in most cases). I'm the one arguing AGAINST change.

There is thread after thread after thread of "do this" or "do that" so that I can more easily kill. The illogical position is the one that assumes people will continue to do the same things they do now, if the rules are changed to make them easier to kill while doing those things. The reality is, people will stop doing those things, if the rules are change in a way that will make them easier to kill while doing it.




I'm the sane one.


What is crazy is to think that there will be thousands of players hanging around, just waiting to be easy kills, if only CCP would change the rules to make it easier to kill them.

Yes, the arrogance of all those people calling for change!!!!

Calling for changes, like nerfing CONCORD, removing local, eliminating NPC corps or making NPC corps war dec-able, removing L4 missions from high sec, making it more profitable to suicide gank, making it impossible to avoid war decs, etc. etc. etc.



It simply AMAZES me how many people see me say "KEEP high sec nice and safe" and assume I want to change high sec to remove suicide ganks and war decs.



The one change I do strongly argue for, is a change to cloaky mechanics to make a cloaked ship LESS safe. Because now, the ONLY ship in space that is perfectly safe, is the cloaky camper that doesn't want to be found... and that is just WRONG!

May I ask what all this isk grinding is for if you are never going to use it?

Mining and missions are incredibly boring aspects of the game. I PVP daily and have so much isk it would take me years to lose flying regular un-pimped ships.

I bet if you carebears actually TRIED pvp with an organized group you would be throwing 50mil isk ships away weekly in the search for ACTUAL FUN.

I do use it. I buy PLEX, I hand out ISK to newer players and to friends, I buy BPOs. I run a POS and buy fuel. I work with freinds to help them achieve goals they have.




Again, we see the true arrogance, and which side of this debate that arrogance lives on.

Boring TO YOU. PvP is an unprofitable, unfun, total waste of time... TO ME!





Again with the blind arrogance! To assume that YOU know what I enjoy better then I know what I enjoy? My gawd the arrogance is strong with this one!

Next thing you know, you'll be arguing that we should put Christianity in school, because if I were just exposed to it, I'd see that ancient mythology really is TRUTH.

Proof that ships shooting at each other makes more entertaining visuals than mining. Not proof that EVE is all about exploding space ships.

Sure, you could remove industry from the game.... and lose a HUGE chunk of CCP's income stream, and probably bankrupt them in the process.

Truth is, we don't need to remove either. Ship explosions AND industry can co-exist within the same game.

Kid you call me arrogant and then bring religion into it and assume what my beliefs are.