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The fight between PvPers and carebears really is the carebears' fault.

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Moth Eisig
#81 - 2013-05-16 14:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Moth Eisig
baltec1 wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
[quote=LHA Tarawa]
What's more, as corps temporarily quit, the number of possible targets drops. As number of possible targets drops, PvPers get more and more bored. And some of them may quit, temporarily or permanently, out of sheer boredom due to lack of targets. So a drop in carebear activity will follow by a dip in PvPer activity as well.


Maybe the "PvP"ers would actually target each other instead of doing Pvhelpless-target-whose-ship-isn't-fitted-for-fighting-other-players. No wait, that would require actual risk for them.

The majority of PvPers who whine about carebears are really carebears themselves; they just want to farm other players in no-risk situations as easily as possible. They don't want to be involved in real PvP any more than the miners and haulers do, and it's even worse in their case because they actually have the SP in the right place and the ships with the right fits, and they're still too scared to go fight someone who might fight back. EVE is supposed to be hard. For everyone. Not just "hard for all of my potential targets."






If we are such a pushover why dont you come take our space off us?


I never said anything that implies pushover. Risk adverse? Want weak targets handed to them on a platter while not having to fight anyone better than them? Yes. But those attributes are not equatable with being pushovers. Most bullies are cowards at heart, but it is precisely because they are not pushovers that they can become bullies.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#82 - 2013-05-16 14:51:31 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:


I never said anything that implies pushover. Risk adverse? Want weak targets handed to them on a platter while not having to fight anyone better than them? Yes. But those attributes are not equatable with being pushovers. Most bullies are cowards at heart, but the reason they become bullies is precisely because at the same time they are not pushovers.


Whats with all of this bullying nonsense?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#83 - 2013-05-16 14:54:55 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

And so some carebears would leave, but the economy wouldn't die. Neither would the activity of pvp players, who will now be clobbering each other for resources (this is already the case anywhere but high-sec, where resources are infinite). And I guarantee new players would still come to this game. The only difference would be that their initial perceptions would be shaped quite differently; they'd be much more accepting of conflict much earlier on. Humans are pretty hardy folk, and when the milk and honey doesn't flow, they adapt quickly. The only reason carebearism is even a thing is because high-sec makes this game too easy and they grow fat and complacent.


There is a problem with that statement. Any ressource infinite in hige-sec is also infinite in null. The rules of engagement and logistics of handling those ressources are the only difference. WHatever is not infinite in null is not even present in high so you can't compare those ressources. People in null are not clobbering each other over ice fields or asteroid belts.

Well maybe station slots.... Are people clobbering each other over those since they are indeed in short supply in null?


Not really - the few slots that are available in null are also effectively less valuable than the slots in hi, because of the overhead of using them and the lack of a local market.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Moth Eisig
#84 - 2013-05-16 14:54:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Moth Eisig wrote:


I never said anything that implies pushover. Risk adverse? Want weak targets handed to them on a platter while not having to fight anyone better than them? Yes. But those attributes are not equatable with being pushovers. Most bullies are cowards at heart, but the reason they become bullies is precisely because at the same time they are not pushovers.


Whats with all of this bullying nonsense?



It's called analogy. The point being that just because I called a group of people carebearish in attitude does not mean that I was calling them pushovers.
Haulie Berry
#85 - 2013-05-16 14:59:17 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


Having the right to do something and having the ability to do something are separate issues. I have the ability to go next door right now and burn my neighbors house down. That doesn't mean he consented to have his house burnt down.




It does in Eve.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2013-05-16 15:08:18 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:


It's called analogy.


Id say more more like lying

Quote:
The point being that just because I called a group of people carebearish in attitude does not mean that I was calling them pushovers.


You said we avoid risk, yet we are the same people who have dominated null warfare for the last 2 years. You simply dont understand what it is we do.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#87 - 2013-05-16 15:09:58 UTC
If like in real life I had a space ship and you had a space ship and we were both in space there would be no real life laws so I can shoot you.

Or maybe...

If I was an Orge and you were a Fairy and we were like in Mordor I would be able to club you about the head.


Analogies are fun.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-05-16 15:29:15 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
The [UNDOCK] button is a "I agree to be blown up" button
by clicking it, you are accepting.


Having the right to do something and having the ability to do something are separate issues. I have the ability to go next door right now and burn my neighbors house down. That doesn't mean he consented to have his house burnt down.




Not in eve. In eve they are same.
The game mechanics give people the right to shoot at ANY undocked ship.
There may be consequences to that action, such as Concord, but the person doing the shooting equally has to accept those consequences.





and just a FYI for you.
Real world crimes have no bearing on an internet spaceship game
How many women 'consent' to ****.
How many children 'consent' to having a spiral arm fracture.
How many store owners 'consent' to being shot at for the contents of the till.

Your also wrong about your neighbour, he may actually be quite keen for you to burn down his house.
It's called Insurance Fraud.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2013-05-16 15:47:39 UTC
Ryu Ibarazaki wrote:

You come on and say it's my way or I quit. It's not just PvPers that will look at a statement like that and be unimpressed. Frankly I don't know why CCP would bother catering to a portion of their playerbase that is so quick to melodramatic gestures and complaining.




You misunderstand completely.

I'm not putting my hands on my hips, stomping the ground, and making some melodramatic, hissy fit statement demanding that CCP do exactly what I want, or I'm going to quit.

What I'm saying is, I play games that I find fun. I find it fun to undock my mining fleet, empty a belt into my orca, sell the mins for cash, use the cash to buy PLEX to fund my account, use excess to expand my BPO collection, work with friends to help them achieve goals, or just sit on comms shooting the breeze with my associates.

Un-fun is my ships going boom so some immature, sociopath griefer can grow his epeen and lol about ruining my day. Fortunately, the game mostly lets me avoid this.

Un-fun is being camped into station because some greifers thought it would be fun to blow up mining ships that can't shoot back. Fortunately, the game allows me to use NPC corps, and other mechanism to avoid this.


What I'm saying is, for me to play a game, it has to be fun and not, un-fun. If EVE becomes un-fun, or becomes not fun, then I'm not going to play it.


And, why would CCP cater to players like me? That is simple. We represent a HUGE portion of their income stream.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2013-05-16 15:51:11 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:

And, why would CCP cater to players like me? That is simple. We represent a HUGE portion of their income stream.



[Citation needed]
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2013-05-16 15:52:22 UTC
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:

LHA Tarawa wrote:


War Dec: Industry corp gets war decced. PvPers say, come out and fight. What actually happens? No one logs in, or if they do log in, they do not undock. The players drop to NPC corps, or spin up a temp corp and switch to that. Very, very few ships actually go boom becuase of high sec war dec vs. industry corp.


What would you like to have happen in that scenario? Hulks and Ventures to undock and try to pvp you? lol
99.9% of the time an indy corp gets war dec'd it's by griefers.


What would I have happen? I would like it if PvPers understood why the industrialists play the way they do, and to understand that they can't change the way we play.



When we say stuff like "The war dec mechanics are stupid, because we either stay dociked up or just switch corps." the response from the PvPer crowd is always the same... "Then undock and fight." I wish the PvPers would understand why that is NEVER going to happen.



I get it... They want easy target to lol at ruining our day. What they need to understand is that no one is going to play a game where they exist just to be someone else's easy target.


It is our fault that we're not willing to be easy targets and get our butts kicked by the griefers.... but there is nothing the PvPers can do that will make us play a game where we exist to be their easy targets.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2013-05-16 15:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
baltec1 wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

And, why would CCP cater to players like me? That is simple. We represent a HUGE portion of their income stream.



[Citation needed]



Any high sec asteroid belt in the game!

I'm not sure the link now, but at a past fan fest, when they were talking economics. In any given month, less than 20% of toons lose a ship, and less than 5% of toons appear on a kill mail.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#93 - 2013-05-16 15:56:16 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:

And, why would CCP cater to players like me? That is simple. We represent a HUGE portion of their income stream.



[Citation needed]



Any high sec asteroid belt in the game!

I'm not sure the link now, but at a past fan fest, when they were talking economics. In any given month, less than 20% of toons lose a ship, and less than 5% of toons appear on a kill mail.


Because my mission running or mining alts pvp all the time...

Gonna need better evidence than that to prove your wild claims.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2013-05-16 15:57:13 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
...What I'm saying is, I play games that I find fun. I find it fun to undock my mining fleet, empty a belt into my orca, sell the mins for cash, use the cash to buy PLEX to fund my account, use excess to expand my BPO collection, work with friends to help them achieve goals, or just sit on comms shooting the breeze with my associates.

Un-fun is my ships going boom so some immature, sociopath griefer can...
That is not this game. EvE isn't always fun... it isn't aways casual... and it isn't suppose to be. Your expectation do not match what this game is and you are playing it wrong. That is going to be frustrating and annoying.

You have a choice: take EvE for what EvE is and gain more enjoyment or expect EvE to change an meet your expectation... and suffer.

You need to make a choice.
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#95 - 2013-05-16 15:58:04 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
If like in real life I had a space ship and you had a space ship and we were both in space there would be no real life laws so I can shoot you.

Or maybe...

If I was an Orge and you were a Fairy and we were like in Mordor I would be able to club you about the head.


Analogies are fun.



Nice name Big smile
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2013-05-16 15:59:54 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
What would I have happen? I would like it if PvPers understood why the industrialists play the way they do, and to understand that they can't change the way we play.
They already do, because they're very often the same people.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#97 - 2013-05-16 16:03:57 UTC
Please show us how you grind a billion isk on missions and mining.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-05-16 16:04:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Me thinks everybody in this thread has just been trolled :)

I wish this was the case. If you look through the OP's posting history you'll see that he's pretty consistent in his calls for nerfing combat of any sort in high-sec.



Nothing could be further from the truth.

What I consistently do is argue for high sec to remain as it is now. I argue against those that call for the nerfing of CONCORD, the removal of NPC corps, the nerfing of the ability to avoid war dec by leaving corp, the removal of local, removal of large towers from high sec, removal of L4s from high sec, etc.

The one big change I HAVE argued for is changes to cloaky mechanics to combat the cloaky camper in sov space... which is NOT a high sec effecting change.
Lin Suizei
#99 - 2013-05-16 16:06:28 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
You have a choice: take EvE for what EvE is and gain more enjoyment or expect EvE to change an meet your expectation... and suffer.


That's the thing though - EVE *is* changing to meet OP's expectations. Patch after patch, aggressive highsec play eats nerf followed by nerf, whether through intentional changes or simply devs not thinking about the effect of certain changes on certain content-creating gameplay styles.

It is we who must adapt to this new future, an iron curtain of decadent, near-absolute safety in highsec, policed by an omnipresent and omnipotent CONCORD, watching over hundreds-strong flocks of mining ships, greedily emerging from their stations to gorge on ice every four hours.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#100 - 2013-05-16 16:08:22 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:


I'm not putting my hands on my hips, stomping the ground, and making some melodramatic, hissy fit statement demanding that CCP do exactly what I want, or I'm going to quit.



Not yet anyway....but you will. You've already proven yourself to be a moron now it's only a matter of time before your master plan of zero loss crashes and burns. THAT thread will be entertaining.