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The fight between PvPers and carebears really is the carebears' fault.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#241 - 2013-05-17 17:42:41 UTC
I wardec for two reasons..I'm bored and highsec shouldn't be safe, or tactical advantages.

I've been known to ship down when my target decides to undock and take the fight to me. I've even gone so far as to give my WTs some extra ISK if they start running low. These of course, are the duders who realize that yes, they are playing a multiplayer game, and yes, other people can invade they bubble.


Hells, I remember a case awhile back, where a CEO of a mining/trading group flat asked me "Hey, can you teach us how to PVP when we get done with this war?" I was tickled pink, taught em everything I know, and last I heard they were off doing FW and shootin guys in low.


Sure, you can 100% deny me kills, but conversely, I can 100% deny you mission/ratting/mining/whatevs PVE you were indulging in. Undock and fight, and you might learn something new. I've yet to find a devoted PVPer who won't talk your ear off on ships, fittings, and tactics, WT or no. Stop taking shiplosses personally, and L2P.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Alatari Yassavi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#242 - 2013-05-17 17:43:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.


Base hull of a titan is 65 billion. Man up.


Some of us dont have large corps that give ships back when lost. Some of us actually pay for our ships with hard earned isk. This may not be the case for you. I am sure you scrapped for it...

Quit your bitching and fly!
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
#243 - 2013-05-17 17:43:27 UTC
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:


Wait, Highsec griefing is considered PvP now? Did I miss that memo?

That is like saying Whores In Space are PvPers instead of Griefers out for easy no-effort kills.


I can speak for my corp. We like to fight ;)

Goonswarm

RAZOR

Ivy League

The Obsidian Front

I could list this stuff all day but you should get the point.

I do agree with you that the vast majority of the high sec entities want easy kills but do not judge everyone. Everytime we log on we are looking for a FIGHT, not a gank. If you want to test your pro pvp skills come on up and pay us a visit. Bring a fight, not a gank :)

What TEST thought was fair

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#244 - 2013-05-17 17:44:20 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:


What kind of tactical reasons? I really am curious, because it's entirely possible there's a strategic side of wardecs and wardec dodging that I'm missing.


The other year we targeted abaddon supply to cripple our enemy in a war. We would have used wardecs on some of the bigger jita suppliers but as wardecs are so broken and easy to avoid we ended up spending a lot more isk on just ganking them. This resulted in abaddons being too expensive for our enemy to afford in large numbers and crippled the main fleet tactic and helps us win the war.

Thats just one example.
Lady Areola Fappington
#245 - 2013-05-17 17:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.



Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Including implants.

Park the multibillion ISK ratting ship, jumpclone into a blank pod, fit some cheap hardwires, and go make explosions.


In fact, here's generic PVP tips that you can apply Opponent is flying a ship with short range weapons, kite them. If they're flying long range, get in close (typically, long range weapons have crappy tracking. There are exceptions, do your research)

Amarr and Gallente lean towards an armor tank. Caldari and Minnys lean towards shield. When in doubt, go for thermal damage, folks don't seem to close that hole. If you see logi ships on the field, hard-counter them with ECM. If you see cap-heavy weapons, counter them with neuts.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#246 - 2013-05-17 17:48:21 UTC
Alatari Yassavi wrote:


Some of us dont have large corps that give ships back when lost. Some of us actually pay for our ships with hard earned isk. This may not be the case for you. I am sure you scrapped for it...


We have pilots that have funded their own titans all by themselves. A numbers of supers are also privately owned. One of the megathrons I am building right now is worth 3 billion.

One of the most basic laws of EVE is dont fly what you cannot afford to lose.
Alatari Yassavi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#247 - 2013-05-17 17:50:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alatari Yassavi
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I wardec for two reasons..I'm bored and highsec shouldn't be safe, or tactical advantages.

I've been known to ship down when my target decides to undock and take the fight to me. I've even gone so far as to give my WTs some extra ISK if they start running low. These of course, are the duders who realize that yes, they are playing a multiplayer game, and yes, other people can invade they bubble.


Hells, I remember a case awhile back, where a CEO of a mining/trading group flat asked me "Hey, can you teach us how to PVP when we get done with this war?" I was tickled pink, taught em everything I know, and last I heard they were off doing FW and shootin guys in low.


Sure, you can 100% deny me kills, but conversely, I can 100% deny you mission/ratting/mining/whatevs PVE you were indulging in. Undock and fight, and you might learn something new. I've yet to find a devoted PVPer who won't talk your ear off on ships, fittings, and tactics, WT or no. Stop taking shiplosses personally, and L2P.


I take back any negitive anything i have said about PvPers. The only time I have dealt with them is D-Bags who mess with small startup corps being a bully. You are one of the first to actually want to help people (even opponents) to get better.

Quit your bitching and fly!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#248 - 2013-05-17 17:56:25 UTC
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.


Another perfect example of "that's your problem, not the game's".

No matter where it is, it';s just a ship. If it's going to just KILL you to lose it, don't fly it in the 1st place. Poor game play is the game players fault.
Alatari Yassavi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#249 - 2013-05-17 18:06:54 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.


Another perfect example of "that's your problem, not the game's".

No matter where it is, it';s just a ship. If it's going to just KILL you to lose it, don't fly it in the 1st place. Poor game play is the game players fault.


Not everyone plays this game the same way or with the same mind set as others. Yes i should have the isk to back up what i am flying, yes i should not really care about the ships as it is a ship. These are all true things. but just bacause you love blow up other ships to prove your worth, I like to mine and grind and build and earn. Their is nothing wrong with either approach. You play your style i play mine. Nothing is to say one way is the way it should be vs the other.

Quit your bitching and fly!
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#250 - 2013-05-17 18:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
LHA Tarawa wrote:




What would I have happen? I would like it if PvPers understood why the industrialists play the way they do, and to understand that they can't change the way we play.


You mean like the combat pilots who have indy roled pilots or even separate accounts? I'm sure tons of null combat pilots understand industry alot better than you because you fund some BPO researching with multiboxing mining fleets.



Quote:
When we say stuff like "The war dec mechanics are stupid, because we either stay dociked up or just switch corps." the response from the PvPer crowd is always the same... "Then undock and fight." I wish the PvPers would understand why that is NEVER going to happen.


That's your doing honestly enough. Plenty of corps available to be hired to do the dirty work for you.



Quote:
I get it... They want easy target to lol at ruining our day. What they need to understand is that no one is going to play a game where they exist just to be someone else's easy target.


I don't think you do get it. Although you might be targetted personally, I'm willing to bet (and maybe lose) that it isn't always "you" they are targetting. It's isk. Or maybe a bi product of the fact you might be supplying a null corp under the protection of a different corp name and the aggressing corp wants that supply route halted.


Quote:
It is our fault that we're not willing to be easy targets and get our butts kicked by the griefers.... but there is nothing the PvPers can do that will make us play a game where we exist to be their easy targets.


You keep saying "pvp". I do not think it means what you think it means. Player versus player. If you intend on playing a player versus player oriented game based on online people being able to influence your activities in the same open universe....

You made a poor investment for your monthly sub and efforts.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Ryu Ibarazaki
Doomheim
#251 - 2013-05-17 18:08:15 UTC
Alatari Yassavi wrote:

I take back any negitive anything i have said about PvPers. The only time I have dealt with them is D-Bags who mess with small startup corps being a bully. You are one of the first to actually want to help people (even opponents) to get better.


I think you'd be surprised by how many PvPers are willing to help out less experienced players. Next time someone pops your ship, start a private chat with them. I've learned some amazing things from people that want to shoot me in the game; after taking the time to be social and ask questions.
Alatari Yassavi
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2013-05-17 18:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alatari Yassavi
I will do that, the last 2 times I have done this... i got responses of go f*** myself and i believe it was suck my a**. So once again, i have had some diffrent takes on the whole PvP. I am more willing to attempt to go at it and see what i am made of as far as ship building.. as long as it is not a cruiser vs a dreadnaught Lol

Quit your bitching and fly!
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#253 - 2013-05-17 18:15:27 UTC
I only ever hear the hardcore PVPers complain about someone else not playing the game the way they think it should be played. So... the problem really lies with the PVPers.

Also have fun PVPing when there are no carebears anymore. Lol

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Lady Areola Fappington
#254 - 2013-05-17 18:18:14 UTC
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
I will do that, the last 2 times I have done this... i got responses of go f*** myself and i believe it was suck my a**. So once again, i have had some diffrent takes on the whole PvP. I am more willing to attempt to go at it and see what i am made of as far as ship building.. as long as it is not a cruiser vs a dreadnaught Lol



There's some jerks in EVE, true. Don't let it poison you to asking questions.

Also, dread vs cruiser would be a stalemate! The dread wouldn't be able to hit the cruiser, but the cruiser wouldn't be able to break the dread's tank. (see, I'm doing it!)

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#255 - 2013-05-17 18:23:18 UTC
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Alatari Yassavi wrote:
Here's the thing, many hisec "carebears" have the big coslty ships. If we loose one we are out somtimes billions of isk. i.e. providence or cheron. along with all of what was on it. Not to mention if you get streight killed that you loose your implants, which can also be costly. So when low or null sec says "oh it is just a ship" yes it is a very exspensive ship. Especially when you are talking to folks who run in frigates and such.


Another perfect example of "that's your problem, not the game's".

No matter where it is, it';s just a ship. If it's going to just KILL you to lose it, don't fly it in the 1st place. Poor game play is the game players fault.


Not everyone plays this game the same way or with the same mind set as others. Yes i should have the isk to back up what i am flying, yes i should not really care about the ships as it is a ship. These are all true things. but just bacause you love blow up other ships to prove your worth, I like to mine and grind and build and earn. Their is nothing wrong with either approach. You play your style i play mine. Nothing is to say one way is the way it should be vs the other.


1st of all you haven't read this thread. As long as you aren't an NPC, yo have nothing to fear from me most of the time lol.

It has nothing to do with "how you play" of how I play. It's about common sense and taking responsibility for your choices.

Some people (*looks at the op*) don't wanna be responsible for their choices, they want to game to coddle them and protect them (so they can profiteer on the actions of others, all carebears are feeding at the PVPrs trough, myself included).


Playing EVE is a choice, and if that choice leads to the consequence of losing stuff in the game, that's not the games fault, it's not the "mean pvpr's" fault, it's the victims fault for not understanding the game they were playing.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#256 - 2013-05-17 18:27:01 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
I only ever hear the hardcore PVPers complain about someone else not playing the game the way they think it should be played. So... the problem really lies with the PVPers.

Also have fun PVPing when there are no carebears anymore. Lol


If all you hear is PVP players complaining, you're not paying attention to this forum lol.

No one really cares how you (or I) play the game. They care about the game itself and if they wanted to play a theme park game where people could be totally safe, they'd do that. The problem is with the short sighted people who want the game to be "safe" (while they leech and profit off the actions of the PVP players who kill stuff and drive the economy).


Here's an idea for you folks who hate PVPr's STOP SELLING THEM SHIPS AND GUNS, they'll leave the game and you can carebear in total peace. Problem solved.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2013-05-17 18:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Shao Huang wrote:
OP- thank you for the thoughtful response.

You use two terms a lot (griefing and victim) and they seem to mean something different to me than they do to you. Your arguments seem to rely on your definition of those terms. Perhaps you could say what they mean for you?


Griefing is someone that plays in a style where their enjoyment comes from causing pain to others. They are not fighting to gain something of value or to protect some resource or control a system. They are not fighting with people, becuase those people enjoy fighting back, as in faction warfare or RvB where both sides are enjoying themselves.

A griefer is someone playing in a way that gets then nothing of value beyond the jollies from hurting others.

So, killing a freighter loaded with valuable cargo, is not griefing.

Throwing away 100 million ISK worth of ships, to suicide gank an exhumer, in hopes of getting 10 million ISK in loot salvage, just because you enjoy the tears of the miners, is griefing.

Same 100 million ISK ships suicided to kill an exhumer that is mining ore in a system that you mine in, to get them to stop mining that ore that you will mine, not griefing.


Victim is pretty straight up. The loser in a fight. If I short cycle my lasers on a rock you were shooting, so I get ore and you do not, you are my victim. I run a market manipulation and scam you out of ISK, you are my victim. We both want to fight, and I win the fight, you are my victim.





Please reread your definition of "griefing". Out loud. Then read the underlined part. That's not even counting where you get the 100million worth of ships to gain 10mil in loot salvage, which arbitrarily, needs a citation.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2013-05-17 19:16:00 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

Some of us just want to explode spaceships, in the game that's all about exploding spaceships.

"Because I want to" has always been a valid and legit reason to do anything in EVE. No other justification needed.


FAIL!!!!

EVE is NOT all about exploding space ships!





Yes it is.

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Ken 1138
State War Academy
Caldari State
#259 - 2013-05-17 19:20:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ken 1138 wrote:



All i hear is "WAAAAH damn you carebears get out here so i can kill you!"

FFS EVE Online isn't a CoD deathmatch where the goal it to kill everything that moves. There is other **** to do than PVP and no PVP like you want isn't the endgame you think it is. Easiest way to PVP is do a null sec roam. So go freaking do it. Plus you WANT to kill mining ships? Not much of a fight there bro. You can't kill carebears because they don't mine in low. Well quess what it's not worth mining in low if you can mine in Null and if you're worried about you sec status some freaking podding people in low sec.

So people like you need to shut up and stop masturbating to PVP. Play smart and work with the system that has been refined over the 10 goddamn years of this games life. Sheesh.

Yet another scrub who thinks we pvp just to get green killboards.


I've been with pvpers and in pvp corps. yes, yes you do.
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#260 - 2013-05-17 19:27:34 UTC
Moth Eisig wrote:


What kind of tactical reasons? I really am curious, because it's entirely possible there's a strategic side of wardecs and wardec dodging that I'm missing.


I'll give you a good example which goes back to the very early days of Eve.

I used to be in a corp called Dark Empire which at the time was considered a mega corp (around 2003/4) based out in nullsec with a largish industrial wing in highsec around Pernigman. Another corp in our alliance wanted the mining in the same Highsec system we were in and hired a very small corp to wardec us using hit and run tactics.

It worked very well as a tactic, it was much more profitable to move the operation a few systems than keep providing a military force in case the indy fleet was attacked.