EVE General Discussion

I know, I'd rather they left the 24 hour timer myself, but if it was never intended to be there, and just a mechanical limitation...well, it's gone, adapt and overcome.

AWOXing still works the same as always though, so there are ways to inflict damage on the unaware corps.

Hi. No on the mugging as I go to some trouble saying in the post you are quoting. Twice I think.

The threat is implied due to the assertion of loss to CCP and then lost value to the game, but point taken. This is the reason 'threaten' is in quotes. The OP has not actually threatened. Apologies for the confusion. You have missed the argument however. The point is that OP clearly demonstrates his own voluntary participation. I don't think the OP would dispute that. Victimization is not possible in the condition of voluntary participation.

Again, i don't think you understood my suggestion. I am making a distinction between finite and infinite games. They have different conditions, the primary one being voluntary partcipation, but also some things having to do with rule sets and such. Participation in an infinite game is not voluntary. (There are very real and horrific, institutional, structural, global conditions of victimization in infinite games.) Participation in finite games is voluntary. People often confuse these. In this sense EVE is finite. Life (as a whole) is the only known infinite game condition. I am suggesting that EVE is a finite game attempting to emulate the conditions of an infinite game, as are most MMO's to some extent. EVE does a better job than most because of the 'sandbox' like play and values that is based on. The fact that people can feel victimized, even when the conditions for victimization are not actually present, says that they are to some extent successful in the emulation. Finite games usually have a win/lose condition, for instance, which EVE does not.

Edits: typos. Parenthetical comment for clarity.

You're basically right there. The argument is less PVP/PVE, and more "Should other people be allowed to influence my game without my consent?"

EVE puts very few limits on the ability to interact with other people, with or without their permission. I get the feeling OP doesn't like that.

TL;DR: Herpy Derp Derp

No, no. TL;DR: don't be this kind of jackass.

No, feels like you hit the nail on the head. And through the board.

Tears, tears, sweet yummy tears!

Thank you for looking up the finite-infinite games reference. There are two conditions of import. One is, as you have said, that the rules of the game are intended to produce continued play for infinite game. Wonderfully true for EVE. The other that is that entering play is completely voluntary for a finite game. Also true of EVE. Not true of life.

Please feel free to articulate the self evident. There is almost nothing that is self evident in my understanding of the world. Probably a character flaw. It might be helpful if you could show me something that had that quality.

In my own view, the conflation of the literal and metaphorical are a great source of suffering in the world. Admittedly it is tough since literality arises from how one determines the boundaries of one's identity and such.

When you say someone is 'causing' you suffering in EVE, could you please lay out exactly how you think that happens? Please refrain, if you can, from making random attributions about the 'other' player and give a shot at unfolding what you feel are the necessary conditions for suffering from your point of view and how that happens exactly in EVE. It seems to be clear to you in some way.

Please be clear that I have made no attributions about real and unreal. You did that. You coupled it with an ad hominem argument. You have now used both argument from authority, by implying something as self evident and ad hominem. Neither are likely to serve your interests, whatever those actually are.

I do not understand your statement about catering to someone else. Why did that come up?

I wonder, how would you feel if I suggested that your ad hominem attacks were exactly the thing about which you seem to be complaining? Do you know that you are not 'causing' me anguish? How have you determined that? Is it ok to do here, but not in the 'game' for some reason? Are you making some sort of distinction about that? If so, how are you managing to do that, I wonder?

Or if you insist on conflation, wherein you claim no such distinctions exist, consider this: to maintain your self identification with your avatar and what it 'owns' likely uses more energy, in a shorter period of time than an entire favela in Brazil has available to it in a month. If you insist on complete conflation, how exactly do you account for this in your world view?

I have some news for you about real life then: people have been waging war in exactly this manner since the day they discovered how to make pointy sticks.

Despite the fact that Eve has been like this since the servers came online in 2003, so the people to blame are the people who came here expecting something else.