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Dev blog: Dual Character Training

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ISquishWorms
#221 - 2013-05-20 18:51:58 UTC
I like flexability, therefore I like this feature thank you CCP for implementing it.

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
Robert Hyde
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#222 - 2013-05-20 19:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Hyde
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Roajax wrote:
Go the full distance.... Increase the number of toons per account to at least 9. Allow us to login multiple characters at once.

IE: If I'm paying 2 plex's per month I should be able to login 2 toons on that account. Nothing worse than trying to make the right combo of pilots + cynos work when there are ridiculous account restrictions. IE: toon1 on account#1 with cyno. toon #2 on account #2 with carrier. toon #3 on account #1 with jump freighter. See the problem? Would be a ton easier if I could just whichever 2 toons I need.


This is a HUGE task. Really big emphasis on how difficult this is. Not comparable in scope to what we had to do for this feature.


How so? Isn't only the "proxy" terminating existing connections the issue? Like this, dual training will stay the inferior alternative, considering you can't even get the 51 free days you get when refering yourself.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#223 - 2013-05-20 20:23:06 UTC
Robert Hyde wrote:
How so? Isn't only the "proxy" terminating existing connections the issue? Like this, dual training will stay the inferior alternative, considering you can't even get the 51 free days you get when refering yourself.

Except that you get indefinite free use of the character after you've finished training it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#224 - 2013-05-21 10:31:21 UTC
One of the things I love about Eve is the way it highlights the law of Unintended Consequences.

What will happen as a result of this?
My prediction:

a) plex prices will spike for 2 months
b) PI prices will plummet a month later

Why?

Because all WH dwellers like me will use this to train PI alts - something we should have already done but could not bring ourselves to wean our main characters off their precious skill queues.

:-)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
VegasMirage
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#225 - 2013-05-21 21:49:47 UTC
Lucas Peterson deserves some credit I think.

here's the original thread about this feature suggestion, as you can see many people were against it - now 12 pages of comments saying it's great (why not speak up when the topic is being discussed?).

forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203581

no more games... it's real this time!!!
Ancyker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-05-22 09:14:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ancyker
I like this feature and have been wanting it for a while. But I see a few problems, namely:

Training a cyno alt takes less than 30 days. Training a PI alt can take less too if you go basics, or longer if you go all out. This really is going to hit PI because it allows people to go all out and regain their money. Cyno alts don't regain money (on their own, at least).

But my biggest issue with this is...

A PLEX can make a new account with 51 days of game time. A PLEX costs between $17.50-20.00 depending on which pack you get. This system games that market and tries to milk people for more money. I like the idea of training a second character, but REQUIRING an entire PLEX for something that is far less than game time is just milking your customers more and to me is insulting.

This has me flashing back to "Greed is Good". It might not be pay to win, but it is definitely greed. You're a business, you have to make money. This is true and I understand. But you'd get far more out of this if you weren't greedy and either offered more time (i.e. 1 PLEX = 45 days) or allowed payments with cash (i.e. $10/month more = additional character training).

You already charge more for other services via PLEX than cash. A character transfer costs 2 PLEX which is equal to $35 even though this service is only $20 with cash. That's fine because people paying with PLEX usually can't or don't want to pay with cash. Those that pay with cash can get it at a discounted rate compared to buying PLEX.

The game should not require purchasing PLEX with cash for anything other than selling on the market/contracts/to another player.

My Suggestion / tl;dr

Make it so we can buy it as an addon with cash, not just with PLEX. For a price between $10-15/month -and/or- make a PLEX give more than 30 days of time. Without this, it's just another insulting feature to try and get more money from us.

Edit

Here's an idea I had: Have an account mode switch on the account management page. When this switch is on, accounts burn game time 1.5x (or whatever multiplier you choose) faster. During this time you can dual train.

So, say you have 15 days of game time remaining. You enable dual training. Now you have 10 days remaining. You train for 5 days, with 5 days left you disable multiple character training and have 7.5 days remaining.

Could even make it automatic. Allow anyone to train a second character, have the multiplier act while that character is training. If a characters queue runs empty, the mode reverts to normal 1x. On top of that, if this proves to be an issue you can simply remove the mode as an option and you've removed the feature without gypping people out of any money.
Hulk Miner
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#227 - 2013-05-22 16:17:33 UTC
Until you can log on multiple characters from the same account when loading your extra plex then it does not serve any use to most people with multiple characters who multibox.

Maybe work on the multiple login then people will start to consolidate accounts.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2013-05-23 01:06:14 UTC
Ancyker wrote:
IThis has me flashing back to "Greed is Good". It might not be pay to win, but it is definitely greed..


You're playing eve and complaining about greed? Uhh...

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Ichi Bomb
Obtainium Inc
#229 - 2013-05-23 02:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ichi Bomb
This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)

I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.

I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .

CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.

500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....

PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!

Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?

Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!

Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!

I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....

PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!

If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.

The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!

Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!

Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideas….. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is ‘’supposedly’’ player driven?

This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.

Anyone that doesn’t like this post:

Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.

Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.

Can’t or won’t pay for ‘’REAL’’ alt accounts.

Don’t understand the ‘’true’’ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.

Wants an easy way out.

Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is ‘’GREAT’’. (Incarna)

Needs something to disagree with.

Is a noob with no clue.

PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!

Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?

Give me an F'in break!

If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.

Send all the hate mails and posts you want… it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who can’t!
=)
Arisidana
Amadari Traders
#230 - 2013-05-23 02:52:50 UTC
Ichi Bomb wrote:
...



That's a lot of BS in your post Roll
Ichi Bomb
Obtainium Inc
#231 - 2013-05-23 03:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ichi Bomb
Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#232 - 2013-05-23 14:55:05 UTC
Ichi Bomb wrote:
Arisidana, an almighty 2 month old alt is the first to admit she is a Lemming of CCP and afraid of the truth.... next...
The truth is Arisidana is right, there was a lot of BS in that post.

If you don't like it, don't use it. I'll be the first to admit it has a very limited and niche appeal, but it's there all the same. But it shouldn't ever be cheaper than a sub.

Oh and lol at the Plex ruining Eve. Lol

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#233 - 2013-05-23 17:22:09 UTC
So in the end:

-Does this change the interest on having more than one account? -no

-Does this change anything about toons market? -no

-Does this change anything for those who don't want to use this option?-no

-Does this change have a significant impact for players not willing to have a second account for whatever reason and actually train a character with specific skills they want for their own use? -yes

-Does this change have a negative impact on plex in game market or for CCP as company? -no

So why so much blahblahing about something you DON'T have to use, something you're NOT penalized for not using it?

Seriously people, there are far more interesting things to debate about from now on and this change is an awesome addition overall to comfort a significant number of players they're listened to, offer them options that might have an impact on the long term playing for them which is all benefit for CCP and the community.

Think at larger scale of things, not your single person.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Emcera
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#234 - 2013-05-25 12:51:16 UTC
Ichi Bomb wrote:
This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)

I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.

I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .

CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.

500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....

PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!

Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?

Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!

Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!

I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....

PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!

If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.

The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!

Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!

Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideas….. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is ‘’supposedly’’ player driven?

This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.

Anyone that doesn’t like this post:

Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.

Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.

Can’t or won’t pay for ‘’REAL’’ alt accounts.

Don’t understand the ‘’true’’ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.

Wants an easy way out.

Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is ‘’GREAT’’. (Incarna)

Needs something to disagree with.

Is a noob with no clue.

PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!

Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?

Give me an F'in break!

If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.

Send all the hate mails and posts you want… it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who can’t!
=)


tl;dr
Tommy Nash
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2013-05-25 13:49:32 UTC
Ichi Bomb you forgot about the people who pay 0$ for playing.
Verlaine Glariant
The Kudur Cult
#236 - 2013-05-26 13:52:20 UTC
Suddenly the "Logout to Character Selection Screen" turns even more needed than before.

I've been 7 years waiting for it. And counting...

www.amphysvena.org
Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#237 - 2013-05-27 11:37:06 UTC
Tommy Nash wrote:
Ichi Bomb you forgot about the people who pay 0$ for playing.


Every subcription costs... everyone needs to pay. Even if you don't personaly pay for the 15$ someone else pays it for you if you buyght a plex. So 500k active subcriptions does mean 500k paid subcriptions.

I yes i do like this idea and I will definetly use it every now and then to train alts to invention.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm
scar4 Niminen
united orange scorpions
#238 - 2013-05-27 12:38:49 UTC
Does this mean I can have to characters on the same accoun
If not I will just pay for another account
Anti-social Tendencies
Society for Miner Education
#239 - 2013-05-28 03:57:36 UTC
scar4 Niminen wrote:
Does this mean I can have to characters on the same accoun
If not I will just pay for another account


I don't think you have been paying attention. You still won't be able to log own two characters on the same account at the same time. It just allows you to train two characters on the same account at the same time.

Some have already pointed out that this will have limited use. If someone wants to train up a new character for a couple of months, say for a pi alt, they will like start a new account on the buddy program and get 3 weeks of "free" trial account training then subscribe and the buddy reward. Then after a couple months of training just move that toon to there regular account. So I don't think it will be used for that much at all.

More likely is the situation where someone already has multiple tons on the same account and decide they really need just one more skill on the alt they have and decide to shell out the 500m ISK to train that up.

I don't see myself doing it much at all, but you never know.

All in all, it may be a nice option for those rare occasions, but it isn't a big deal.

"Patience: n, a minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue." - AMBROSE PIERCE
Cleksha
CT Mining and Manufacturing
#240 - 2013-05-28 09:11:22 UTC
Ichi Bomb wrote:
This dual training for PLEX idea is Bull$#!t !!! (BS)

I PAY for 3 accounts so I can train ''ALTS'' and have been for the last 7+ years.

I have a main and 2 paid so called ''ALTS'' .

CCP finally has 500,000 subscribers a month as mentioned at Fanfest 2013.

500,000 X $14.95 = $7,475,000 a MONTH CCP makes just off of EVE subscribers not to mention EVE related / trademarked products; EON Magazine, clothing, PLEX, etc....

PLEX = Ruining EVE !!!

Is $7.5M a month not enough Hilmar, Guard, Soundwave?

Remember your roots CCP, you guys were poor once too !!!

Only the ''RICH / SPOILED'' in RL players of EVE can keep up with this PLEX BS !!

I can afford 3 accounts a month but I refuse to pay $15 here and $15 there for virtual BS....

PLEX = Pilot License Extension, keep it that way!

If people want to buy PLEX aka VBS (Virtual BS) to pay for their ALTS I think that's fine.

The dual training idea and any other future ideas you have for screwing loyal EVE players out of their $ is BS!!!

Just because I don't want to pay for PLEX or don't have the time to play to pay for PLEX I can't dual train... this is not fair to a 7+ yr vet of the game, when some rich, asshat, noob, spoiled, assbag living off mommy and daddy can do it !!!

Sounds to me like CCP is running out of ideas….. I have always hated PLEX and always will. It screwed up the in game market enough as to where CCP had to step in and intervene a market which is ‘’supposedly’’ player driven?

This is an idea that should have been released and forgotten in INCARNA.

Anyone that doesn’t like this post:

Is rich in real life and has a ton of $ for PLEX.

Has their rich parents pay for their EVE accounts.

Can’t or won’t pay for ‘’REAL’’ alt accounts.

Don’t understand the ‘’true’’ underlying mechanics of the market, algorithms CCP uses, or the overall game itself.

Wants an easy way out.

Is ignorant and thinks that every idea CCP has is ‘’GREAT’’. (Incarna)

Needs something to disagree with.

Is a noob with no clue.

PLEX = BS and any smart EVE player can and should see that!!!

Also look at all the questions related to this PLEX BS.... It's mind boggling.. Can I swap my sisters account for my brothers account if its a Friday, or is the price of tea in China cheaper on the 3rd Saturday of every month? Well what if 3 squirrels eat 6 nuts on Wednesday, can I move my :06 seconds left on my DUAL TRAINING PLEX time to my mom's sock drawer on a Tuesday?

Give me an F'in break!

If the 11 pages I read before this is mankind at it's finest, we will never invent a ''real'' star gate!!!.... LO mother f'in L.

Send all the hate mails and posts you want… it just lets me know who can handle the truth and who can’t!
=)

Soo... When you Rage quit can I have your stuff?