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Dev blog: Dual Character Training

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Edward Perry
Signs of Life
#181 - 2013-05-17 21:37:27 UTC
Celeste Taylor wrote:
Drachiel wrote:
[quote=No Alibi]
Dual training

$19.95 per month
Cannot use both characters at once

Second Account

$15 per month
Can use both characters at once

Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.

45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box.


Don't get me wrong here, I love having two accounts to alt tab between but I don't find much benefits from more than two since my system gets sluggish and there is rarely a reason why I would have both my accounts idle. Plus I prefer spending 2 PLEX a month for my 6 characters over 6 PLEX a month for six accounts.

My accounts have 3 characters that I use and if I want to train one of my alts for a month my options are to either pause my main, or to start a new account (1 PLEX) transfer my alt (2 PLEX) for a total of 3 PLEX and an additional PLEX a month every month or transfer it back after a month (2 PLEX) for a total of 5 PLEX! I prefer just paying 1 PLEX to add an additional 1-2m SP to my preexisting alts which occurs especially when new skills or ships are introduced.

This feature isn't for everyone, but it is a great option for people in this situation who have three characters on an account that they use.


While I like the idea, I think the cost is at the level of SCAMing us for money. Come one, to enable a feature like training does not cost $15 bucks a month. I will continue to have my multiple accounts.

This does not seem like a fair pricing scheme. Come on, we should at least get 2X the plex time.

This will be of great advantages to the big corps and alliance that Farm Worm holes and POS incomes that already play for free. They will just funnel more of their isk in to training toons, which will allow them to make more money and raise the cost of plex's

Good idea, bad for the small time player like me
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#182 - 2013-05-18 04:33:26 UTC
Can I have CCPs babies? I am a guy but I'll figure something out Lol. Kidding aside, I love this idea, makes my life a heck of a lot easier.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Desmont McCallock
#183 - 2013-05-18 06:36:08 UTC
Chribba wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Chribba wrote:
Should be interesting but I don't really see the point as it's basically the same as having two accounts?

You know, there's a lot of people I expect this from, but not you. You're smarter than this.

I don't think it's a bad thing, and there's views that have indeed made me go ahh from the way I play the game that I didn't think about before when people show their support for dual training.

But I realize that is because the way I viewed it so I'm glad I got to get your views since some of them are nothing I ever thought about Smile

Although it would make it maybe a bit easier to not having to log on so many different accounts... if only there was a way to log off to character select...

Thank you!

/c

I too support this (log off to character select)
Lady Gwendolyn Antollare
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2013-05-18 12:24:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Gwendolyn Antollare
Ok, so I'll ask the question....Why can't I train all the toons on my account at the same time for free?

CCP gives me the ability to have 3 toons as part of my subscription, so why not give me a true subscription and let me train my toons all at the same time?

Is everyone so blind as to see this will not affect CCP's bottomline? I still can't use all 3 at the same time so if I need an alt on while I'm logged in I still have get a second account.

Please don't tell me that well they had to pay a programmer to do this...they had to pay a programmer to make ice belts into anomalies, they had to pay a programmer into making changes in the scanning code, they paid a whole bunch of programmers to make all the changes and bug fixes that we get as part of our regular subscriptions. By that logic players should pay for the next expansion with a plex. Can you say Mists of Old Man's Star?

Nice idea for CCP. Perhaps not so nice for the players.

One woman's thoughts

Nerfing Hisec has never fixed Losec or Nullsec
ALI Virgo
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#185 - 2013-05-18 13:43:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ali Virgo
why not have 2 x skill speed or duel skill training on one charter instead.
You would sell a lot more plex and reach wider people then just alt training. Most alts are just super holder or pi cyno market alts. Bring back speed up training but for plex. To speed up training may encourage people away from +5 and risk more pvp with just an extra plex per month. and bring back + 6 and +7 implants. and make the que longer. A lot of people that play who are in military just deactive account since they cant que it past 3 months. make the que Quarter long at-least.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#186 - 2013-05-18 20:16:51 UTC
Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming. Roll

I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it. BlinkBlink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2013-05-18 22:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
Mag's wrote:
Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming. Roll

I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it. BlinkBlink



Oh, man. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont.
This is just the plex manipulation and dont forget the monthly fee value is cheaper than plex prices.
This will be incease the market plex prices, at least +100-150m instantly after changes.
So this is just an another isk sink trick without any real advantages.

Again just for you:

"[quote=No Alibi]
Dual training
$19.95 per month
Cannot use both characters at once

Second Account

$15 per month
Can use both characters at once
Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.
45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box."
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#188 - 2013-05-19 00:11:59 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Oh, man. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont.

You'll have more people training secondary characters on their accounts, but at the same time, you'll have less character transfers between accounts owned by the same player. Another possible result is less demand for sub-10M SP utility characters on the character market, since such characters will easily be trained on extra character slots without the need for a second account and eventual transfer.

This is just cursory speculation, of course.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2013-05-19 04:19:13 UTC
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Pigdaddy Ordahll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#190 - 2013-05-19 04:23:22 UTC
New player here and totally loving eve so far. But gotta say this just feels like a massive ripoff.
Don't get me wrong I'm stoked about the dual training (am currently training up a trial acc to go sub) on 1 acc, makes it more convenient for sure, but costing 1 plex ($20) per month ON TOP of the sub fee.... c'mon.. really!!.

Yes i'm aware you can get plex for free via isk in game but many of us simply don't have those kind of resources or time. I implore/beg/ask CCP to seriously rethink this "costing" structure and make it more like 1 plex for every 3/4/6 months. Especially given since no game time is being added.

Thanks for listening to a newbs concerns.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#191 - 2013-05-19 07:25:10 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:

45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box."


That has the potencial for weird situations, where your account is out of supscription, but still in training.

Anyway, I too think this is a useless feature - I won't pay a plex just to train another char - that's why I'm having alts.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2013-05-19 08:15:50 UTC
Akturous wrote:
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.

How many ******* times do we have to say it?
Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account.
Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Pigdaddy Ordahll
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-05-19 09:34:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Akturous wrote:
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.

How many ******* times do we have to say it?
Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account.
Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.


Problem being is mate is how many months is your alt gonna be in training for?.. which means 1 plex per month.

Say I want to lvl up a basic indy alt, ind/research/PI/hauler/mining etc etc and not even min/max

Let's say that ALL up it's gonna take 180 days (which is a pretty fair and somewhat accurate assumption, especially if you plug it all into evemon).. that's 6 months.. 6 plex's... 6 x $20....... $120.. JUST TO TRAIN A TOON!!!!.. and yes loosing the ability to multibox.. atleast with having 2 acc's you have the ability to multi box and doing it @ $15 per month.

Dual training in it's present form is only for those with large amounts of either real life disposable income or ingame isk and is fundamentally flawed.

But as many will say.. don't like it don't use it. I for one will not be using it, in it's present form.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2013-05-19 09:35:11 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Akturous wrote:
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.

How many ******* times do we have to say it?
Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account.
Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.


Surely it's worth the transfer fee if you're going to stop training the account after 6 months say to have the extra scout, cyno, etc handy.

It's a rip off, we'll put it that way, but luckily I can vote with my wallet.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-05-19 10:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aivo Dresden
I like the idea, but I'm sorry, this is REALLY expensive. Doesn't anyone else see this? This feature has no use in the game, I'm sad to see development time was wasted on it.

Quick math:
1 account + 1 PLEX
34.90

2 accounts:
29.90

You are paying 5e more a month, just to have this alt there training there (you can't play both at the same time). Unless your training is less than 4 months, you can just use 2 accounts and then transfer the character. Not to mention that if you have 2x6moth subs, you are only at 23.90, which means that the single account feature will literally cost more than running 2 accounts, and paying a transfer after only 2 months!?

Who in their right mind, would pay for this feature?? The only way this could be justified was if the price represented the value you get. Right now this functionality is just so overpriced. The PLEX should give 60 days of training time, at least.

I'm paying almost double (11.95 vs 19.95) for a feature to use an alt, and I can't even log in both at the same time? Yea no thanks. I'll just keep paying 2 accounts, save TONS of money and be able to log in both at the same time.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2013-05-19 13:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Akturous wrote:
Not really sure how this is better than starting a new account, infact it's flat out worse. Costs the same, but you can't log in simultaneously.

How many ******* times do we have to say it?
Alt: You train that character for one month, and use it, but you still have to pay for successive months that you use it, in addition to paying for your main account.
Dual training: You pay to train your character for one month in addition to the subscription fee, but for successive months you pay only the subscription fee for one account. You can use both characters, just not at the same time.


Man use ur brain.
"How many ******* times do we have to say it?"
You can use the alt from another account too without subscription fee (from plex) or you can use from real cash which is much better because that just 15$ and not almos 20$, and u can use it the accounts same time with other one too.
So the second account give to you an advantage. So, the dual training on one account maybe should be cheaper, because is worsen than the other choice which give to you an abilty to use it same time with other accounts.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#197 - 2013-05-19 14:28:24 UTC
TravelBuoy wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Oh my, there are people who think this should be cheaper or even free. I didn't see that coming. Roll

I do see this filling a need in certain circumstances and think it's a good move. But it should NOT be cheaper than subs, no matter what the restrictions. Do like it, don't use it. BlinkBlink



Oh, man. "Do like it, don't use it." ??? But the plex prices will go up because of this change, no matter if anyone use it or dont.
This is just the plex manipulation and dont forget the monthly fee value is cheaper than plex prices.
This will be incease the market plex prices, at least +100-150m instantly after changes.
So this is just an another isk sink trick without any real advantages.

Again just for you:

"[quote=No Alibi]
Dual training
$19.95 per month
Cannot use both characters at once

Second Account

$15 per month
Can use both characters at once
Not only is a second account cheaper, it's also outright better.
45 days would, IMO make up for the higher $$$ cost and inability to dual box."
So what if Plex prices change? That's the market for you and prices change often.

I predicted a while ago that people would want this for less, but sorry no. You don't get to train another char for less money. If you are upset about not being able to use it, then get a second account. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-05-19 14:58:31 UTC
I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.

Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of.
Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt.
Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters
Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account.

This added training option is not to create a second character you play like a main. The price of plex is not al that relevant, this isn't supposed to be like a subscription, I'm sure that there will be some who act that way but its really just so you can train your two other characters to fly stealthbombers for null roams, destroyers for hisec ganks, or industrials and PI.

I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#199 - 2013-05-19 19:30:53 UTC
I am excited by the potential for a future of account management where we have an account that is free to play, but pay per month for training queues, each of which will allow skills to be queued for any of the characters on the account that do not have skills already queued. I wonder if this future will include paying for multiple concurrent logins too (each login slot allowing me to log in any inactive character). Then I can simply activate the number of logins I need separately to my multiple training queues. No sense in maintaining three logins to run nine station trading alts, after all :)

Day 0 Advice for New Players
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2013-05-19 21:19:15 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
I think a lot of people are missing the point of this game mechanic addition. This is not to create a second whole character, but to train a support alt without having to sacrifice the mains training time.

Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of.
Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt.
Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters
Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account.

This added training option is not to create a second character you play like a main. The price of plex is not al that relevant, this isn't supposed to be like a subscription, I'm sure that there will be some who act that way but its really just so you can train your two other characters to fly stealthbombers for null roams, destroyers for hisec ganks, or industrials and PI.

I am guessing that the CCP intended time frame for use would be about three months on any particular account. and not longer then that. This is not a second subscription, this is not a second main character. Complaining about it in such terms is dumb.


Idiotism.

"Train your main while you also creating those destroyer ganking alts that ccp is fond of.
Train your main while you make that perfect mining alt.
Train your main while you get perfect PI on your other two characters
Train your main while you make that freighter alt on the pvp toons account. "

Those options u cant do on another account ? Yes u can, and get an advantage to log on anytime when your main is online too.
and you get those options on your second account for cheaper.
This is just an another ISK sink with plex price manipulation.