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We are all brothers and sisters in arms, fellow capsuleers.
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Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-05-15 14:03:02 UTC
For once, I'll have to agree with captain Anslo. Completely.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Anslo
Scope Works
#22 - 2013-05-15 14:05:22 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
For once, I'll have to agree with captain Anslo. Completely.

Well that's a first.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Rosen Thornn
House of Nightshade
#23 - 2013-05-15 16:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Rosen Thornn
Felsusguy wrote:
We are hated. By the government and by the people. They fear us, yet don't respect us.


We have earned their fear, we have given them no reason to respect us. Our brothers and sisters on the ground have done nothing to change this.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-05-15 18:21:31 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Well that's a first.


I know. Where has the world gone to if us two start agreeing now?

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#25 - 2013-05-15 19:21:11 UTC
The empires play their own little petty games. Who cares if they respect us or not? Most capsuleers already only care about what they can get out of the interaction.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#26 - 2013-05-15 19:34:16 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
There's one faction you neglected to mention in your list of factions who hate capsuleers:

Capsuleers.

Brothers in arms my arse.

We are kin, and we are all fighting this war. We just don't realize which side we should be on.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#27 - 2013-05-15 19:37:19 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
There's one faction you neglected to mention in your list of factions who hate capsuleers:

Capsuleers.

Brothers in arms my arse.

We are kin, and we are all fighting this war. We just don't realize which side we should be on.


Perhaps you do not. Come to Reynire and we can discuss the merit of different sides.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-05-16 01:04:07 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
We are kin, and we are all fighting this war. We just don't realize which side we should be on.


No, we are not. That we share a technology doesn't make us kin. It's like saying all who use a certain model of computer AI are kin because of that, or that those who like the same sport are kin. They are not, and neither are we.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#29 - 2013-05-16 03:23:57 UTC
Sepherim wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
We are kin, and we are all fighting this war. We just don't realize which side we should be on.


No, we are not. That we share a technology doesn't make us kin. It's like saying all who use a certain model of computer AI are kin because of that, or that those who like the same sport are kin. They are not, and neither are we.

We are of the same type, you and I. Same capsuleer training, same capsuleer implants, same capsuleer sociopathy. And our clones are made of the same variety of biomass. Every time we are reborn, we enter our next life in the same way. You can go no closer to kin than that, save for actual blood relations. Call it a sibling rivalry, but don't forget: we are kin.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#30 - 2013-05-16 04:59:14 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Sepherim wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
We are kin, and we are all fighting this war. We just don't realize which side we should be on.


No, we are not. That we share a technology doesn't make us kin. It's like saying all who use a certain model of computer AI are kin because of that, or that those who like the same sport are kin. They are not, and neither are we.

We are of the same type, you and I. Same capsuleer training, same capsuleer implants, same capsuleer sociopathy. And our clones are made of the same variety of biomass. Every time we are reborn, we enter our next life in the same way. You can go no closer to kin than that, save for actual blood relations. Call it a sibling rivalry, but don't forget: we are kin.


Kin means different things to different people. Bits of metal in your head doesn't make you kin any more then the fact you both have bone in your head comprising a skull. It makes you kin in the larger Human sense, but that's about all.
Eden Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-16 05:12:50 UTC
No, we're not the same. Some people are utter garbage that honestly deserve to be podded on sight in any known or unknown space.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#32 - 2013-05-16 07:46:08 UTC
All of humanity is my kin.

My brothers and sisters are not defined by blood, nationality, or technology, but by the spirit.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-05-16 13:21:21 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
We are of the same type, you and I. Same capsuleer training, same capsuleer implants, same capsuleer sociopathy. And our clones are made of the same variety of biomass. Every time we are reborn, we enter our next life in the same way. You can go no closer to kin than that, save for actual blood relations. Call it a sibling rivalry, but don't forget: we are kin.


No.

Different universities give different trainings and skill sets to their students, so dwe don't have the same training.

We don't have the same implants, only the basic pod control interfaces, as each ownes other implants beside those that are personal.

I'm not a sociopath, so we're different in that as well.

And so do all humans are made of the same biochemicals, cell types, water and DNA, with minor differences.

Every human that is born enters life in the same way.

So, either all humans are kin as captain Hanaya suggest, if you take such a broad sense of kinship that devoids it of any meaning, or then we're not kin. As I said, I am not your brother, as much as you'd like to, and will never be. My brothers are in the Empire: in the Imperial Navy, in the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris. You are neither of those. Thus, you fall in the cathegory of potential friends, potential enemies, and wartargets that covers all the rest.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander
Adreena Madeveda
Sebiestor Tribe
#34 - 2013-05-16 13:47:35 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:


[...] same capsuleer sociopathy.


Don't try and drag all of us in your own pit.

...................\o\ /o/...................
Vinh Trahn
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#35 - 2013-05-16 14:19:45 UTC
We are not all brothers and sisters, not in blood, not in bond.
We are not all alike, we do not behave the same under duress, we do not act the same towards others.

We are not an element, we are not a mineral. We do not behave statistically the same to situations presented to us.

Though our biomass might be inherently the same our experiences and our frame of reference gives us a peculiar ability that can not be defined by the laws of nature.

The ability of free thought.

Fear not this night. You will not go astray. Though shadows fall still the stars find their way.
Ston Momaki
Disciples of Ston
#36 - 2013-05-16 14:26:30 UTC
If we are hated, it is because we have accepted as the core philosophy of capsuleer life that we exist to exercise power and technology as a means of destructive force. We have set ourselves up to be feared rather than loved and admired.

But, what if, instead of brothers and sister "in arms" we were brothers and sisters "arm in arm" using the technology of the capsuleer and the training of the capsuleer for peace and for the betterment of humanity. Were that we were not trained for war, but trained for peace. Were that the machines of our technology designed to help rather than destroy, to heal rather than to kill.

We should not circle the wagons against those who "hate" us. Instead, let us serve until we are loved and respected. We need not be hated. The potential for transformation in our cluster does not lie in wepons and in clone soldiers. Let us drop doctors carrying medicine instead of soldiers carrying weapons. Let us fly ships full of food and agricultural equipment instead of ships bristling with cannons and missile launchers.

Perhaps the hate that is felt is just a reflection of the hate that reside within.

The Disciples of Ston bid you peace
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
#37 - 2013-05-16 14:34:10 UTC
Alright, let's get something straight. This isn't an 'us or them' situation and you're gonna very quickly endanger yourself if you make it that.

I like the idea of giving those claims of 'immortality' a little more credibility by securing and perfecting the method, but this talk of kinship is a load of fedo ****.

The majority who don't have access to the tech we do are just less privileged. That's all. They're not the enemy. And they're no more my brother than you are.

Ex-Kaalakiota citizen. Ex-Hyasyoda citizen. CEO of KŌKAK, a Nugoeihuvi affiliate corporation.
Vinh Trahn
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#38 - 2013-05-16 14:37:02 UTC
Ston Momaki wrote:


Perhaps the hate that is felt is just a reflection of the hate that reside within.


What we show on the outside is logically part of what is inside of us. The Voluval ritual can be seen as a physical representation of this.

However it is what we do with what we have inside that defines us. Some use seek only to better themselves, some seek to better others through what we have been given.

It is our diversity that makes us great, that makes us interesting. I don't think I could live in a world where my ideas weren't challenged from time to time.

I do think I could live in a world where we wouldn't blow each other up over those ideas however.

Fear not this night. You will not go astray. Though shadows fall still the stars find their way.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#39 - 2013-05-16 21:08:20 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Sepherim wrote:
We are not immortal.

I contest that. We are perpetual, our minds last indefinitely, and although we may cease to exist, it is not because we die.


Well technically, we died the first time we got cloned. Our clones are merely look-a-likes with our exact personality and memory loaded onto it. Basically, we've all technically been dead for a while now.

Just...don't think about it...



If you do think about it, you have to start redefining what "dead" is. Personally, I prefer to leave that to the shamans.

Sepherim wrote:
No, we are not. That we share a technology doesn't make us kin. It's like saying all who use a certain model of computer AI are kin because of that, or that those who like the same sport are kin. They are not, and neither are we.


It gives us something in common but I find myself in agreement with Mr. Catillah. We are not kin. Among my kin are capsuleers, baseliners, and clone soldiers. But there are capsuleers, clone soldiers, and baseliners whom I could never view as kin.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#40 - 2013-05-17 01:00:32 UTC
Ston Momaki wrote:
If we are hated, it is because we have accepted as the core philosophy of capsuleer life that we exist to exercise power and technology as a means of destructive force. We have set ourselves up to be feared rather than loved and admired.


Personally, I own an automated factory that produces vaccines. I also enjoy hunting down Sansha ships that make the mistake of being in Ammatar space.

There are lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes execute dangerous people. Either way helps.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
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