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Woot, woot. Now even easier to get out of a war dec.

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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2013-05-14 19:23:51 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
IDK LHA, industrialists get to influence the game and the people in it through manufacture and research. It seems only fair that they be susceptible to some sort of recourse from non industrialists.


Suicide ganks? Bumping?


Corey Fumimasa wrote:

I think the key to staying out of fights that you don't want is just to lie low; don't go out in a 12 alt mining fleet or build POS'es. Just play the game below the radar and no one will even see you let alone mess with you.


Or, try to recruit and grow the corp. Or in a mining fleet that is not all alts. Or move too many ships in and out of trade hubs... or... or.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2013-05-14 19:27:15 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.


The result would be that you could drive players from the game, which CCP does not want.

The current mechanics are designed to ensure that one player can't make life so miserable for another player that has no options on finding a way out of the misery,, that the "another player" gives up and quits.


CCP is not going to let you harass people out of the game.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#43 - 2013-05-14 19:30:26 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.

Never. Permagriefing is the only result of that.


The only griefing were is avoiding wardecs with this system. At least make them pay the cost of the wardec to leave the corporation.


Malarky there is TONS of grieffing with 1 man corps wardeccing without fighting.
Your idea would cause a new way to grief by following around miners until you force them into NPC corps.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#44 - 2013-05-14 19:35:47 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Wardecs should follow players until the war ends.

Never. Permagriefing is the only result of that.


The only griefing were is avoiding wardecs with this system. At least make them pay the cost of the wardec to leave the corporation.

And if the wardec is never dropped nor surrender accepted?


Obvious, the War continues.


No more like: OBVIOUS the miner quits Eve
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-05-14 19:38:28 UTC
Maybe the 24 hour wardec timer needs to go too!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#46 - 2013-05-14 19:40:41 UTC
Andski wrote:
Maybe the 24 hour wardec timer needs to go too!


Interesting point. But it'd give quite an advantage to HI SEC POS bashers.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-05-14 19:41:59 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Interesting point. But it'd give quite an advantage to HI SEC POS bashers.


Which is about the only thing wardecs are worth doing for since CCP has made hisec even more PvP-optional

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#48 - 2013-05-14 19:42:13 UTC
Christ. I want to be angry at CCP for this, but I'm just not surprised at their decisions anymore. Not only did they make wars a pay-per-target endeavor, but they completely overlooked all the means people could use to escape them.

And now this.

I really can't see wars being a viable anything anymore unless they drastically lower their costs. You pay a minimum of fifty million for a week of war and everyone bails within the next fifteen minutes. You can continue that payment cycle on every alt corp they make I guess. That's really good game design, right?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-05-14 19:42:58 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Christ. I want to be angry at CCP for this, but I'm just not surprised at their decisions anymore. Not only did they make wars a pay-per-target endeavor, but they completely overlooked all the means people could use to escape them.

And now this.

I really can't see wars being a viable anything anymore unless they drastically lower their costs. You pay a minimum of fifty million for a week of war and everyone bails within the next fifteen minutes. You can continue that payment cycle on every alt corp they make I guess. That's really good game design, right?


eve online: the cold, harsh unihahahahaha

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
GreenSeed
#50 - 2013-05-14 19:42:58 UTC
taxing extraction wouldn't be a bad idea, after all bounty and mission income is already taxed by npc corps. so it could be argued that its currently unfair for NPC corp mission runners to get hit by a tax that NPC corps miners can evade.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-05-14 19:46:34 UTC
Andski wrote:
Maybe the 24 hour wardec timer needs to go too!


How about lets say 30 minutes maybe? Just to prevent the easy to forsee "dec on gate".

DarthNefarius wrote:


Interesting point. But it'd give quite an advantage to HI SEC POS bashers.


Is there a timer before you can effectively finish it off?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-05-14 19:49:53 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about lets say 30 minutes maybe? Just to prevent the easy to forsee "dec on gate".


Well, since you can easily drop corp the moment the wardec mail gets in, shrug it off like it's absolutely nothing and get back to farming broken incursions and L4s, wardecs are irrelevant with any timer

The timer's got to go. EVE is supposed to be dangerous, not cuddly and safe.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#53 - 2013-05-14 19:50:25 UTC
This pretty much makes wardecs redundant.

Perhaps it's time to either have the wardec follow all wardecced corp members for a time (say 2 or 3 days) or start upping the price to form a new corp to 50mil.

Alternately, just get rid of wardecs if CCP hate them so much
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#54 - 2013-05-14 19:50:27 UTC
Enjoy your epic scroll of corp history. Nothing says your loyal like joining 7 corps a week.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#55 - 2013-05-14 19:53:29 UTC
I can see two solutions here. The first is to give a refund of war fees proportional to the amount of people who leave during the war term. If I declare war on your 10-man corporation and six members leave within a period of one war term, I get 30 million back.

The second is to significantly decrease the standard war term, maybe to like one day or so, and drop the price of war accordingly.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Danni stark
#56 - 2013-05-14 19:57:39 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about lets say 30 minutes maybe? Just to prevent the easy to forsee "dec on gate".


Well, since you can easily drop corp the moment the wardec mail gets in, shrug it off like it's absolutely nothing and get back to farming broken incursions and L4s, wardecs are irrelevant with any timer

The timer's got to go. EVE is supposed to be dangerous, not cuddly and safe.


but at the same time, instant war decs are basically suicide ganking without the suicide part. there's already too many reasons to stay in the npc corp if you live in high sec, without adding another. if anything we need to remove reasons to stay in npc corps.

although, until they do that i'm going to abuse the hell out of npc corps.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#57 - 2013-05-14 19:57:47 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Obvious, the War continues.

And so the dec against the individual player continues. Every player that drops from the wardecced corp makes the dec cheaper, making it easier to perma dec them. You're advocating making people into permanent targets, unless you're suggesting some other arrangement.
baltec1 wrote:
The war dec is against the corp not the pilot, it ends after a week.

His specific recommendation was to have the war follow the pilot until the war ends.
Andski wrote:
The timer's got to go. EVE is supposed to be dangerous, not cuddly and safe.

Bat Country's killboard and the results of Burn Jita 2 prove hisec isn't the least bit safe. They are clear indicators that wardecs are totally unnecessary for the goal of making sure that every pilot, everywhere is subject to violence.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-05-14 20:00:25 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
How about lets say 30 minutes maybe? Just to prevent the easy to forsee "dec on gate".


Well, since you can easily drop corp the moment the wardec mail gets in, shrug it off like it's absolutely nothing and get back to farming broken incursions and L4s, wardecs are irrelevant with any timer

The timer's got to go. EVE is supposed to be dangerous, not cuddly and safe.


How about :

Lower cost per corp member
30 min timer before it become active
The dec sticks on individual players for 1 week after corp is dropped

Then, to make being in an NPC corp less attractive, raise the cost of some service for NPC corp members. Aim those cost increase at high end services since there is no real point to increasing the cost of services a 1 week old newbie would use. Industrial/research slots costing more according to how many you use for example. The week old newbie probably isn't running tons of jobs even if he choosed industry as his carrer but the industry mogul would see the cost and probably take the additionnal wardec risk of having his corp. Stuff like that would hurt the wallet wich is where you need to hurt people if you want them to leave NCP corps imo.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-05-14 20:01:01 UTC
GreenSeed wrote:
this is CCP telling you in the nicest form possible " if you want targets that can't escape you, go to nullsec. where you cant escape either should you get bubbled inside a station."


Nullsec, where the rewards are supposed to be in line with the increased risk. But it's not, and hisec is in most cases far more rewarding to play in even with high SP - see incursions - and anything in nullsec that is remotely competitive to hisec incursion income gets nerfed into the ground, like hubs.

Since you want a safe, cuddly hisec where you can bot to your heart's content with the only worry being getting suicide ganked when the stars align and we have a full moon, then you should accept a significant reduction in rewards.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#60 - 2013-05-14 20:01:58 UTC
No really, guys, hisec warfare in its current form is fixable with a few tweaks.

Hisec cooperation and competition needs to be rewritten from scratch. You're all trying to empty the ocean with a spoon here.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal