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Show some fn respect!

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The Apostle
Doomheim
#81 - 2011-10-20 00:52:10 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:
CCP should be bought out by a much better company at computer games and the original founders pushed out and replaced with people with proper business and game background experience.

So says Buruk Utama from "Science and Trade Institue ". (I had to, ohh the irony.. seriously, it's funny. yes it is... seriously)

But, jokes aside.... It was the technological decisions made by ID that made ID a very worthy and very wealthy company.

They were good and were bought BECAUSE they developed their own engine. They were innovators and it would be fair to say that they set the standards for gaming that we still enjoy, even today.

NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Buruk Utama
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-10-20 00:58:07 UTC
The Apostle wrote:


NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.



Uh did you not read my previous post to that one. I compare CCP to Bethseda and the creation of 2 new engines for their games. Bethseda created and is now launching one of the best engines out there for any sort of game environment. I never complained that they were creating their own engine. My chief complaint was the creation they made is horribly coded, not-efficient on any level of processing (it shouldn't tax a 4870x2 card to max resources for 1 apartment rendering), and looks like something made in 2004. Look at Skyrim and the engine they created for that, hell look at fallout 3 or oblivion. Each was a uniquely created engine in a few years time. Yet during that same time that Skyrim was created/built/launched CCP gave you a room which could burn your video card out.

I would love for them to create something new, however you cannot completely cut off all focus and funding for the only game paying you and not expect a backlash when people don't find a first person experience comparable with internet spaceship pew pew.Cool
Joneleth Rein
#83 - 2011-10-20 01:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Joneleth Rein
Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy

Let me ask you this.

Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?

Did the thought cross anyone's mind?

Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2011-10-20 01:36:36 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
Joneleth Rein wrote:
Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy

Let me ask you this.

Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?

Did the thought cross anyone's mind?



Its a matter of fact that the porked over EvE in favor of the other projects.

No one had a problem with them working on new things but you cant do it while screwing over the existing product.

Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
The Apostle
Doomheim
#85 - 2011-10-20 01:41:56 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:

Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.

errr. cough. Incarna has never been fully rolled out. They haven't even turned Carbon on yet.....

Patience my son. Patience.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2011-10-20 01:53:18 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:

Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.

errr. cough. Incarna has never been fully rolled out. They haven't even turned Carbon on yet.....

Patience my son. Patience.



They had more years then it takes most game companies take to make a complete game from the ground up.

Yeah patient waiting left the harbor long ago.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
The Apostle
Doomheim
#87 - 2011-10-20 02:00:36 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:
The Apostle wrote:


NEVER forget one thing. The SAME people "wasting their time on their new engine" (as your expert opinion tries to point out) developed Eve. You know, the ground-breaking, innovative, never before seen space environment that all others TRY to copy but cannot.



Uh did you not read my previous post to that one. I compare CCP to Bethseda and the creation of 2 new engines for their games. Bethseda created and is now launching one of the best engines out there for any sort of game environment. I never complained that they were creating their own engine. My chief complaint was the creation they made is horribly coded, not-efficient on any level of processing (it shouldn't tax a 4870x2 card to max resources for 1 apartment rendering), and looks like something made in 2004. Look at Skyrim and the engine they created for that, hell look at fallout 3 or oblivion. Each was a uniquely created engine in a few years time. Yet during that same time that Skyrim was created/built/launched CCP gave you a room which could burn your video card out.

I would love for them to create something new, however you cannot completely cut off all focus and funding for the only game paying you and not expect a backlash when people don't find a first person experience comparable with internet spaceship pew pew.Cool

Nah. I get that. But none of the engine development has been completed. None of the final product rollouts have occurred.

You're making a judgement, supported by some important gaming historical facts, on a product that isn't even officially launched yet let alone have a history.

I'm not quite sure why you're following this line. There's nothing to draw a parallel from yet.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Hicksimus
Torgue
#88 - 2011-10-20 02:16:21 UTC
Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed.
When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.

Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#89 - 2011-10-20 02:22:42 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Hicksimus wrote:
Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed.
When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.

Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that.

2 things.

Point #1
"I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. " << But never for yourself? Funny how everyone who knows how to run a company works for an employer.

Point #2
"forward planning" << CCP staff didn't launch Eve yesterday. It was 8 years ago. The staff they employed - AND the CEO - made this happen.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2011-10-20 02:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
The Apostle wrote:
Hicksimus wrote:
Thanks for trying, but I've never been laid off before because I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed.
When you are job searching you should want to know everything you legally can about an employer just as an employer wants to know everything that they legally can about you. Just as they monitor your progress you should monitor theirs. If you see your employer keep ignoring the people paying for the product then you should jump ship.

Their lack of forward planning is a lack of self respect and I will not respect that.

2 things.

Point #1
"I've been smart enough to work for employers that know how to succeed. " << But never for yourself? Funny how everyone who knows how to run a company works for an employer.

Point #2
"forward planning" << CCP staff didn't launch Eve yesterday. It was 8 years ago. The staff they employed - AND the CEO - made this happen.


Yeah it would be great if they had that CEO again instead of the current one. And originally Simon and schuster got eve off the ground. They are not the lone Wolf leaders you imagine them to be bud. They had lots of help to get going.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Joneleth Rein
#91 - 2011-10-20 02:29:59 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Joneleth Rein wrote:
Right. Because it really does wonders for companies to focus on one thing and one game alone. Specially for game developing studios in this economy

Let me ask you this.

Would you feel bad if part of the revenue that Dust or WoD would produce was also given for Eve?

Did the thought cross anyone's mind?



Its a matter of fact that the porked over EvE in favor of the other projects.

No one had a problem with them working on new things but you cant do it while screwing over the existing product.

Which is what they did, they wasted years of development on crappy incarna with jack all to show for it. While old bugs, Content and problems were ignored.


Which eventually will benefit CCP and Eve because obviously they do need to pay their bills and look at the future and they can't just sit on their butts. I don't like pulling random numbers out of my head but what if it wasn't cutting it? Would you rather lose EVE than just wait 1 more year for them to actually finish? And actually, looking back at the history I have never seen a more quickly evolving and improving game and tbh I'm starting to get the feeling it's spoiled people a little too much. Things don't just happen. Priorities aren't always what we want them to be and someone else's plan might be looking far more ahead than ours.

I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm new to the game that I still hold some romantic value over it and CCP. Maybe i'll become a bitter vet in a couple years (doubt it).

And from my point of view they have a lot of things to show for it and they'r just a preview still. 2 years to develop the infrastructure engine to handle two different aspects of the same universe while in the meantime having to tackle the complexities both at a macro and micro level of a sandbox game. That enough should bring fear to anyone who has 1)coded for a project this size 2)has actually participated in a design process.

But my point isn't to back CCP up. Just hold your horses with the pitchforks and the torches and think about who's house you'll be setting on fire. Collateral isn't always manageable and sometimes it turns up to be the wrong house.

Peace out



Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2011-10-20 02:36:00 UTC
Buruk Utama wrote:

Lets look at Skyrim v. WoD. WoD started development in 2007, Skyrim started development in 2008 after fallout. Bethseda built an entire new engine, AI, graphics input, etc like CCP has tried to do with WoD. Skyrim launches in a few weeks as one of the best RPG of all time...WoD created a fraken room! I'm sorta pissy by this entire development and believe the entire mess lies at the foot of CEO and upper management in the attitude they took towards the players and are now trying to blame all for these woes but those responsible, themselves.

I'm sorry but I don't see his letter as anything but an attempt to stem the blood flow. The game may be mortally wounded at this point and he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong. Look at the latest PI changes that are coming out and the many many things wrong with the implementation (not the change itself, but implementation and secondary affects which were apparently never thought about). CCP. Remember his words: Watch what they do, not what they say. So far CCP likes to say many things but everything regarding eve development currently is solely related to DUST integration and gearing up micro transactions to use plex sales as a replacement to sub numbers.




RougeOperator wrote:
I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.

Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum.


I agree,

It looks like CCP/Eve is falling down further into the Rabbit Hole, probably landing in Never Never Land. (DUST, WoD, NEX, etc.)

One thing is for sure, we're not in Kansas anymore. (Rushed content released, Bad coding, Forum censorship, etc)

One simple fact of life - a wounded animal always bellows just before it dies. (The Infamous Letter, Non-formative Dev Blogs, Company rollback, etc.)

When a Company is trying to repair public relations with a disgruntled and upset Community showing a declining subscription rate, the last thing needed is to remove the Liaison (GM's) between the Company and the Customer. Doing so only amplifies the community's perception of distrust and low estimation towards the company.

A better approach might have been to reduce wages or cut back working overtime hours instead of laying-off or terminating employees. Of course, if CCP/Eve is indeed a sinking ship - then the rats are always first to leave while the Captain (Hilmar) goes down with the ship.


Hopefully I'm wrong. I'm just tired of all this stuff, starting to wish I had never even heard of Eve.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
The Apostle
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-10-20 02:46:19 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.

Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum.

I missed this post. Probably because I might have skipped the poster rather than the subject Shocked

But hey, Hellmar apologized to YOU, the player and stated that "he's on it"....

He acts, rationalizes, as CEO's have to do, to get Eve back on track, which YOU demanded, and he apologized for.

So he was nothing more than "a simple idiotic meglomaniac" and has now become "scum"?

I don't get it.

YOU guys ASKED for this.

Though I s'pose now you're going to tell me that he didn't sack who YOU wanted sacked. And of course, you're the CEO of CCP and had to make the choices yourself?

Maybe he should have given you a list of employees and YOU could work out who goes/who stays. It's easy. Really is.

Eenie Meenie, Minie Mo.......

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2011-10-20 02:49:05 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
I have a hard time respecting a company that puts out a grovelling letter of apology just a bit before sacking a lot of people before the Holidays.

Hilmar elevated from simply idiotic megalomania to scum.

I missed this post. Probably because I might have skipped the poster rather than the subject Shocked

But hey, Hellmar apologized to YOU, the player and stated that "he's on it"....

He acts, rationalizes, as CEO's have to do, to get Eve back on track, which YOU demanded, and he apologized for.

So he was nothing more than "a simple idiotic meglomaniac" and has now become "scum"?

I don't get it.

YOU guys ASKED for this.

Though I s'pose now you're going to tell me that he didn't sack who YOU wanted sacked. And of course, you're the CEO of CCP and had to make the choices yourself?

Maybe he should have given you a list of employees and YOU could work out who goes/who stays. It's easy. Really is.

Eenie Meenie, Minie Mo.......


Way to project and put words in peoples mouths dude.

This isnt what we asked for. Most of us have no problem with the sacking of WoD devs. Thats a fair call. We have issue with the sacking of the community teams. Which flys in the face of what we want.

I mean seriously are you freaking hilmar or what? Or is he your lover or something?

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Deucalion Ex Mortis
Doomheim
#95 - 2011-10-20 02:52:02 UTC
Thank You Apostle

+1

You have my vote sir!

Please keep it up.

As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!

For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2011-10-20 02:53:08 UTC
Deucalion Ex Mortis wrote:
Thank You Apostle

+1

You have my vote sir!

Please keep it up.

As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!

For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game.


The Apostles Alts come into play.

Cute.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2011-10-20 02:55:38 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.


I seem to have missed the part where I got personal.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#98 - 2011-10-20 02:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.


I seem to have missed the part where I got personal.

[this space left intentionally blank]

Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post.

Aha..... Here we go... Post #24
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why do people like you insist on making all Aussies look bad?

Also, confirming OP is mad.

k. We done here?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2011-10-20 03:01:26 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

He's welcome to disagree but there was no need to get personal.


I seem to have missed the part where I got personal.

[this space left intentionally blank]

Hang 5 mate. I'll go get the post.


You are a sad sad person.

That personal enough?

I know its accurate and all.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
The Apostle
Doomheim
#100 - 2011-10-20 03:05:16 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Deucalion Ex Mortis wrote:
Thank You Apostle

+1

You have my vote sir!

Please keep it up.

As for CCP employees past and present. Thank you for making/help make the greatest game around. Even with its faults eve is the best. I hope CCP can weather the storm. I look forward to Dusk, WoD and many more CCP games in the future. CCP is the best hope we have to bringing an end to the stagnation in the MMO industry. Be bold pilot!

For the employees that lost there jobs today. I wish you and your families the best. Thank you for all you have done for the community, the industry, and the game.


The Apostles Alts come into play.

Cute.

tch tch. The Fools Cubbyhouse. Make it personal.

Psst... I have a total of 15 chars to call on. I could. I don't. I can be foolish and stupid all by myself.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]