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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1441 - 2013-06-08 14:18:46 UTC
Klingon Admiral wrote:
Sadly, the NApoc can no longer be considered a serious missionboat ... running out of capcharges in the middle of a Vengeance (which really is far from being a "hard" lvl4) with maxed Legion-armorlinks is kind of emberassing.

In fact, the cap situation on a pulse-NApoc is now WORSE than the cap-situation on my Tachyon-NApoc which I flew months ago. Should have gotten a second Paladin ... these babies don't have cap issues at all.



If you have Cap Problems in a L4 Mission with Armorlinks, then the new NApoc bonus is the least of your problems.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1442 - 2013-06-08 14:45:24 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

I agree that the new CNR is smaller and faster than the old one, unfortunately that's not really a niche we I can do a lot with.


fixed

Quote:
It's still outright inferior to the Typhoon and Typhoon Fleet in those areas - on top of being inferior in EHP, damage, damage application, rate of fire, drone damage, utility high slots, and more. Yeah - tell me more about how you won't be able to do these sites with the smaller, faster, and more damaging typhoon family. Roll

Honestly, the only reason you're saying the CNR is better than the one you've been flying for five years is because cruise is better than it's been for five years. But cruise isn't just better for the CNR - it's better for everything. The new CNR simply does not have a role.

-Liang


#1 you cannot seperate the Ship from it's primary weapon any more than you can sperate a Nightmare from Tachyons (apologies to you Pulsemare wackos).

#2, no, a typhoon hull can't do some of the things a CNR can do because you need a serious shiled tank to do it

#3. as has been pointed out, you're looking in the wrong direction, the Phoons might need looking at, the CNR is imo (and apprently in CCPs opinion so far) perfectly ok.


A few comments:
- Context matters, and this is why your "fix" is just ********. See, the problem with the CNR is that it's simultaneously outperformed in literally every possible way by the TFI, and occasionally by the Typhoon. If you're willing to put the time and effort into painters, the SNI frequently out performs it as well (though obviously not in the speed/sig area).
- Yes, I agree you can't separate the weapon from the ship. However, that's not what I was talking about - and you should know this. You should know that I was referring to the fact that cruise is on many ships, and those ships obsolete the CNR when fit with cruise. And with torps, but we all knew that.
- Your logic about the CNR being fine in CCP's eyes doesn't hold a lot of water, because obviously the Phoons are fine in CCP's eyes too.

I do love the shifting goalposts though. It's fantastic to see you go from "No the CNR is amazing and ur just a scrub" to "Ok, so maybe [ insert every ship ever ] is OP".

-Liang

Ed: I am curious what those things that the CNR is good at because it requires a serious shield tank to do. :)


Quotan for posterity Lol

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
#1443 - 2013-06-08 15:28:28 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Klingon Admiral wrote:
Sadly, the NApoc can no longer be considered a serious missionboat ... running out of capcharges in the middle of a Vengeance (which really is far from being a "hard" lvl4) with maxed Legion-armorlinks is kind of emberassing.

In fact, the cap situation on a pulse-NApoc is now WORSE than the cap-situation on my Tachyon-NApoc which I flew months ago. Should have gotten a second Paladin ... these babies don't have cap issues at all.



If you have Cap Problems in a L4 Mission with Armorlinks, then the new NApoc bonus is the least of your problems.


Do you want to see my data?

The efficency of a Mega Pulse Laser II w/ Multifrequency I fell from 8.64 damage/GJ to 5.4568421053 damage/GJ, both results before without weapon-skills, but with Amarr BS V. This means a reduction in cap efficency by nearly 37%.

From the old 7500 GJ base-capacitor, the NApoc could generate 64,800 points of damage, again before any skills other than Amarr BS V.

With the new 7000 GJ base-capacitor, the NApoc could generate 38,197.8947371 points of damage. This is a reduction of a little over 41%.

But lets look a a (nearly) maxed out NApoc, shall we?

It has a cap of 8750, and IN MF w/ 3 IN heatsinks and 1 T2 Heatsink generates 441 points of damage for 27 GJ. It can carry 22 units of Cap Booster 800 between it's Faction Injector and it's cargobay, resulting in an additional 17,600 GJ of cap. So the cap total is 26,350. This means the NApoc can generate a theoretical total of about 430,374.55 points of damage, with taking cap recharge into consideration. All before considering that the ship needs cap to rep it's armor (armor, however, was never a problem), power it's hardeners, run it's tracking computers and fuel it's AB/MWD. I use a MWD, but the little, little reduction in cap total should be no real issue (especially after considering that the capacitor pales besides the capacitor potential inside the capsticks). And the MWD wasn't even running in the mission.

By the way, the 430,375.55 points of damage translates to about 25.5 Corpus Popes before resists, but as these ships have about 50% resists against lasers this number shrinks to about 12-13 Popes. So not even a measly Mining Misappropiation (which honestly is one of the most hilarously easy missions) can not be completed with an NApoc.

WTB highsec-capable capacitor-gangbonus.What?
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1444 - 2013-06-08 16:59:02 UTC
Sorry are people really posting in here saying Amarr ships aren't capable of running missions? rofl. Bunch of terribads.
Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
#1445 - 2013-06-08 17:48:44 UTC
Mr Floydy wrote:
Sorry are people really posting in here saying Amarr ships aren't capable of running missions? rofl. Bunch of terribads.


The Apoc/NApoc arent, at least if you don't want to clutter your fitting with capmods.

Just for fun the theoretical damage the bs-sized laserboats can generate w/ all V without imps or mods with Mega Pulse Lasers II from their built-in capacitor (using IN MF):

Apocalypse: 101,435.185
Abaddon: 115,993.222

Apocalypse Navy Issue: 101,435.185
Armageddon Navy Issue: 174,444.444

Paladin: 255,857.556

Nightmare: 252,917.333

The (N)Apocs cap is lacking, seriously. While it is probably awesome if properly fed cap via Guardian or Archon or something, on it's own it is in constant danger of running dry during prolonged engagements, which missions represent.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1446 - 2013-06-08 18:23:33 UTC
Quote:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv


This Video from "The Djego" shows how a NApoc with a MWD that is not capstable runs a L4 Mission quite easily and fast.
Don't act like the ship isn't capable of that.

Also what the **** do you want to say with that DPS/GJ? The fact that the only skill you included in your calculation was a 50% reduction to capuse is incredibly nuts already, but then comparing those numbers and acting like it would say anything about the ship is just insane.
What's next? Comparing the DPS/GJ with other races?

"Apoc is useless because it can only produce x damage from 1 GJ while a Raven can produce infinite damage from 1GJ with weapons, nerf Raven."

I strongly recommend you to try and play around with fittings for ships a bit, you're almost as annoying to read as the guy that complains about the typhoon, that it deals more damage than the old one while having a better tank but that he has to fit it differently now.

Some people..

My Condor costs less than that module!

Akimo Heth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1447 - 2013-06-08 19:00:25 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Quote:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv


This Video from "The Djego" shows how a NApoc with a MWD that is not capstable runs a L4 Mission quite easily and fast.
Don't act like the ship isn't capable of that.

Also what the **** do you want to say with that DPS/GJ? The fact that the only skill you included in your calculation was a 50% reduction to capuse is incredibly nuts already, but then comparing those numbers and acting like it would say anything about the ship is just insane.
What's next? Comparing the DPS/GJ with other races?

"Apoc is useless because it can only produce x damage from 1 GJ while a Raven can produce infinite damage from 1GJ with weapons, nerf Raven."

I strongly recommend you to try and play around with fittings for ships a bit, you're almost as annoying to read as the guy that complains about the typhoon, that it deals more damage than the old one while having a better tank but that he has to fit it differently now.

Some people..


I'm neutral on the Apoc/Napoc, I'm sure it's a great fleet ship but personally it's outperformed by too many other ships to be a viable choice to mission run. For example, for 25% less isk you could buy a N-Geddon and be more successful on the harder, more cap-intensive missions.

Video was pretty unimpressive to be honest, even sped up it looked rather slow on the damage and the mission he was running would be easy in any BS.
Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
#1448 - 2013-06-08 19:08:34 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Quote:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv


This Video from "The Djego" shows how a NApoc with a MWD that is not capstable runs a L4 Mission quite easily and fast.
Don't act like the ship isn't capable of that.

Also what the **** do you want to say with that DPS/GJ? The fact that the only skill you included in your calculation was a 50% reduction to capuse is incredibly nuts already, but then comparing those numbers and acting like it would say anything about the ship is just insane.
What's next? Comparing the DPS/GJ with other races?

"Apoc is useless because it can only produce x damage from 1 GJ while a Raven can produce infinite damage from 1GJ with weapons, nerf Raven."

I strongly recommend you to try and play around with fittings for ships a bit, you're almost as annoying to read as the guy that complains about the typhoon, that it deals more damage than the old one while having a better tank but that he has to fit it differently now.

Some people..


I know this video, in fact The Djego was who adviced me in fitting my NApoc. However, he has A LOT of capacitor mods on his ship (1x Cap recharger, 1x CPR, 1x T2 Laser-Capuse-Rig, 1x T1 Laser-Capuse-Rig). As a results, his DPS are rather abmyssal (916 DPS with Conflag are kinda bad).

And I don't talk of DPS/GJ, I talk of Damage/GJ. The DPS is just an expression of the rate of conversion from cap to damage. While higher DPS result in better cap-efficency, the effect isn't as important to be considered.

And no, comparing other weaponsystem's cap-efficency makes no sense, one would start to check how much damage-equivalent one could carry within the cargobay. This, however, is never an issue. Cap-boosted Amarr-setups do kind of the same thing, converting cargospace to cap, and then converting cap to damage. The conversion rate is kinda horrible, however, however Cap is used for more than blunt damage.

However, I suppose that the NApoc just has a too low conversion rate to make capbooster-setups really feasible, respectively a too small cargobay.

But I HATE cap rechargers. Shocked
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1449 - 2013-06-08 20:31:50 UTC
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Akimo Heth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1450 - 2013-06-08 20:47:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Akimo Heth
TehCloud wrote:
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.


Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1451 - 2013-06-08 20:55:45 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:

Well here's your first, it's just poor now. I'm meeting people really happy about their CNR doing more damage than before until i suggest them to check out how Raven, Phoon or TFI compares and they go in denial, rage or just stay silent looking at the numbers.

Heck i did mission with one guy who had CNR and i had regular Raven and was killing stuff just as fast and tanking just as well.
Needless to say he was totally confused because he had cruise spec L5 and missile damage implant. And a cheap Raven performed just as well.

[stupid forums ate post - let's try again]

Okay, if the regular Raven performed as well as the CNR, the mission wasn't hard enough for it to matter what you were flying.

The CNR has a considerably better tank, is faster and more agile, has better lock time, higher sustained DPS (because it needs to reload its launchers less often), and better applied DPS on anything smaller than battleships (and on BS as well if you use Fury on them). The CNR also has a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth, as an added little bonus.

TL;DR: You are wrong.

I'm wrong if i manage to perform on par with CNR on my Raven? Ok... those differences CNR has on paper don't really show up on real use though.... except laughing at the CNR slow boating to check the wrecks while i was using my trusty tractor beam and making more profit.
Akimo Heth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1452 - 2013-06-08 21:04:42 UTC
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:

Well here's your first, it's just poor now. I'm meeting people really happy about their CNR doing more damage than before until i suggest them to check out how Raven, Phoon or TFI compares and they go in denial, rage or just stay silent looking at the numbers.

Heck i did mission with one guy who had CNR and i had regular Raven and was killing stuff just as fast and tanking just as well.
Needless to say he was totally confused because he had cruise spec L5 and missile damage implant. And a cheap Raven performed just as well.

[stupid forums ate post - let's try again]

Okay, if the regular Raven performed as well as the CNR, the mission wasn't hard enough for it to matter what you were flying.

The CNR has a considerably better tank, is faster and more agile, has better lock time, higher sustained DPS (because it needs to reload its launchers less often), and better applied DPS on anything smaller than battleships (and on BS as well if you use Fury on them). The CNR also has a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth, as an added little bonus.

TL;DR: You are wrong.

I'm wrong if i manage to perform on par with CNR on my Raven? Ok... those differences CNR has on paper don't really show up on real use though.... except laughing at the CNR slow boating to check the wrecks while i was using my trusty tractor beam and making more profit.


Did you even read his post?
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1453 - 2013-06-08 21:17:43 UTC
Akimo Heth wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Johnson Oramara wrote:

Well here's your first, it's just poor now. I'm meeting people really happy about their CNR doing more damage than before until i suggest them to check out how Raven, Phoon or TFI compares and they go in denial, rage or just stay silent looking at the numbers.

Heck i did mission with one guy who had CNR and i had regular Raven and was killing stuff just as fast and tanking just as well.
Needless to say he was totally confused because he had cruise spec L5 and missile damage implant. And a cheap Raven performed just as well.

[stupid forums ate post - let's try again]

Okay, if the regular Raven performed as well as the CNR, the mission wasn't hard enough for it to matter what you were flying.

The CNR has a considerably better tank, is faster and more agile, has better lock time, higher sustained DPS (because it needs to reload its launchers less often), and better applied DPS on anything smaller than battleships (and on BS as well if you use Fury on them). The CNR also has a bigger drone bay and more bandwidth, as an added little bonus.

TL;DR: You are wrong.

I'm wrong if i manage to perform on par with CNR on my Raven? Ok... those differences CNR has on paper don't really show up on real use though.... except laughing at the CNR slow boating to check the wrecks while i was using my trusty tractor beam and making more profit.


Did you even read his post?

Yes? Did you read mine?

Go test both ships and then try to argue that CNR is great uprgade.

It's really embarrassing for 700+ million navy ship to perform so poorly compared to it's regular T1 version...
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1454 - 2013-06-08 21:29:38 UTC
Akimo Heth wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.


Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).


Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.

My Condor costs less than that module!

Klingon Admiral
Black Hole Cluster
#1455 - 2013-06-08 21:47:34 UTC
TehCloud wrote:
Akimo Heth wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.


Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).


Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.


30km optimal (with 2 T2 TC w/ optimal script) aren't 40km.

At 40km, a NApoc will hit an orbitting BS with ~652 DPS. Which is pretty mediocre, and worse than Scorch.
Akimo Heth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1456 - 2013-06-08 21:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Akimo Heth
Klingon Admiral wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
Akimo Heth wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.


Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).


Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.


30km optimal (with 2 T2 TC w/ optimal script) aren't 40km.

At 40km, a NApoc will hit an orbitting BS with ~652 DPS. Which is pretty mediocre, and worse than Scorch.


Each TC2 w/ optimal gives 30% optimal correct?

Without TC's, napoc w/ lvl 5 skills conflag range is 21+10km, with 2 TC2 w/optimal I'm getting 27+16km. Either way, nowhere near 40km.
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1457 - 2013-06-08 22:45:51 UTC
Akimo Heth wrote:
Klingon Admiral wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
Akimo Heth wrote:
TehCloud wrote:
916DPS on an Apoc hull, which has never ever had a Damage Bonus is bad? 916DPS for running Missions is bad? Well, I don't know what you think a Non T2, Non Pirate, active tanked PvE Ship should have in terms of DPS.


Lets ignore that its conflag and not usable most of the time just to make our point! See I can do it too, the Abaddon would have 1145 dps in the same setup and the N-Geddon 1069 dps (and much better cap).


Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.


30km optimal (with 2 T2 TC w/ optimal script) aren't 40km.

At 40km, a NApoc will hit an orbitting BS with ~652 DPS. Which is pretty mediocre, and worse than Scorch.


Each TC2 w/ optimal gives 30% optimal correct?

Without TC's, napoc w/ lvl 5 skills conflag range is 21+10km, with 2 TC2 w/optimal I'm getting 27+16km. Either way, nowhere near 40km.


27+16=43

43 is nowhere near 40.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

My Condor costs less than that module!

The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
Mean Coalition
#1458 - 2013-06-08 23:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
TehCloud wrote:

Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.


You can hit but it isn't that good beyond 36km(still a very awesome range compared to the abaddon or navy geddon), however the new mobility of the navy apoc solves this problem nicely. P

Actually with the extra mobility, double tracking scripts and some manual piloting you can pull off nearly the same dps as the abaddon at close range, it nearly feels like flying a massive Zealot/Legion(I like that).

Klingon Admiral wrote:

I know this video, in fact The Djego was who adviced me in fitting my NApoc. However, he has A LOT of capacitor mods on his ship (1x Cap recharger, 1x CPR, 1x T2 Laser-Capuse-Rig, 1x T1 Laser-Capuse-Rig). As a results, his DPS are rather abmyssal (916 DPS with Conflag are kinda bad).

And I don't talk of DPS/GJ, I talk of Damage/GJ. The DPS is just an expression of the rate of conversion from cap to damage. While higher DPS result in better cap-efficency, the effect isn't as important to be considered.

And no, comparing other weaponsystem's cap-efficency makes no sense, one would start to check how much damage-equivalent one could carry within the cargobay. This, however, is never an issue. Cap-boosted Amarr-setups do kind of the same thing, converting cargospace to cap, and then converting cap to damage. The conversion rate is kinda horrible, however, however Cap is used for more than blunt damage.

However, I suppose that the NApoc just has a too low conversion rate to make capbooster-setups really feasible, respectively a too small cargobay.

But I HATE cap rechargers. Shocked


The dps isn't that bad, 4. HS vs T2 ROF rig was around 25 dps as I compared the fittings in eft and with the extra range of the T2 locus I'm pretty sure the dps on the target is fairly equal overall. Cool

As for cap efficiency of the new apoc, it is obviously worse then the old. However you can't gain the extra 37.5% tracking(without stacking) with 2 rig slots, while you can gain 45% turret cap use reduction with it. T2 damage rigging might not be the best solution for the ship, given what you give up in cap to archive the extra dps.

While I fairly well understand that flying the ships like I do is not everybody's coup of tea, since it is in many cases at the limit what your capacitor, tank and dps can do, the new navy apoc is actually a ship that improves immensely by doing so. I don't think it is bad, the 2 extra rig slots you spend on resists are heavy stacking penalized anyway and without the cap booster it is one more slot(that I tend to take away from the tank).

I'm not totally against giving the navy apoc more cap or better cap recharge, it is just hat it is a very good(to be modest) fleet pvp ship already and buffing it more seams like a bad idea.

I flown the new navy apoc nearly 20h for L4 by now, and the more I fly it the more I like it. If you utilize the extra mobility and tracking, it doesn't feel like the lazy man's choice compared to the abaddon(on max skill levels, with Implants) any more. It feels like a ship that trades some raw dps for awesome mobility, range, tracking and quite a good tank(you can negate like 50% of the missile damage in a L4 Assault vs Guristas with a AB now, you can easily range tank or exploit poor tracking of other BS at point blank). From my point of view, the apoc and navy apoc wasn't a heavy hitter before the patch, it isn't with the changes. However the ships gained a lot in different areas and if I look at mission times(16 vs 18 minutes for WC, 36 vs 34 minutes for AE, 12 vs 11 minutes for recon 1/3, 19 vs 20 minutes for vengeance, 32 vs 35 guristas Assault) the difference isn't this big compared to the abaddon(it would be a bit unfair to compare it to the tach NM/Pala) and it does a awesome job as a puls platform for L4, especially if you need some range and mobility, while the extra tracking even allows you to hit while speed tanking or approaching spawns with the mwd.

Overall the apoc and navy apoc are a lot more competitive for pve now than before the patch, and in my honest opinion a lot more fun to fly than the other bricks.

Edit:

Akimo Heth wrote:

Video was pretty unimpressive to be honest, even sped up it looked rather slow on the damage and the mission he was running would be easy in any BS.


The movie was made as a simple example what the new navy apoc can do, not much more(I don't need ego stroking). There are a few hulls and fittings that can shave off a minute under perfect conditions. I flown nearly everything for pve, and if you feel this was slow, I would welcome useful input to improve my performance.

The mission isn't hard, I just chose it since it shows how quick the new apoc can deal with lots of sub BS stuff(what it does better than the abaddon or tach BS).

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread

Akimo Heth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1459 - 2013-06-08 23:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Akimo Heth
TehCloud wrote:
Akimo Heth wrote:


Each TC2 w/ optimal gives 30% optimal correct?

Without TC's, napoc w/ lvl 5 skills conflag range is 21+10km, with 2 TC2 w/optimal I'm getting 27+16km. Either way, nowhere near 40km.


27+16=43

43 is nowhere near 40.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.


Are you really adding falloff to optimal in defense of 916 dps?
TehCloud
Guardians of the Dodixie
#1460 - 2013-06-08 23:49:23 UTC
Akimo Heth wrote:


Are you really adding falloff to optimal in defense of 916 dps?


Are you really that dense?

I wrote:
Quote:

Guess what, Optimal Range + Tracking Bonus allows you to use Conflag. 20k Optimal + 10k Falloff without any mods, Tracking Computer in the mids and you can hit up to 40k with Conflag.


Yes it's in Falloff, but since the Apoc is fast and agile, you shouldn't have problems to keep enemies within your firing range, And if you do, swap crystals.

But I'm quite sure you'll claim another stupid thing next, like "the ship isn't fast because it can't goo 500m/s without a propmod" :3

My Condor costs less than that module!