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[Odyssey] Navy Battleships

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Author
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#1341 - 2013-05-23 21:09:37 UTC
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#1342 - 2013-05-23 21:24:30 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.


If we accept that PVE doesn't matter than the CNR is even more obsolete. Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a CNR:
- Less sig
- Faster
- More EHP
- More missile damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- Utility highs

Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a Pest Fleet:
- Less Sig
- Faster
- Very similar EHP
- More damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- More utility highs

Shall we go on? ;-)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#1343 - 2013-05-23 21:40:28 UTC
Trolly McForumalt wrote:


Compare the (unneeded) buff they gave the fleet typhoon to the... whatever it is they gave the CNR.


You are right.
The +5% was enough
Now with the +7.5% we have a bunch of brainless carebears only interested in their quest for their maximum damage projection against npcs red cross.

It s why low slots for them are only good for dmg mods, none of them care about armor tank.
It s why some of them even ask for additionnal med slot ... for more shield tank or painters, none of them care about the pvp.
And if you want to explain why the loss of a low slot does not worth the +12% rof ...good luck.

Only one guy posted a real fit with a point!!! someone we know well in amar fw.

Pvp options and versatility are being sacrified. Why? to increase isk/hour in lvl4? to have a npc pawn machine alone in space sourrunded by npcs ... what a great change!!!

One word ... distressing

Ah .. and my congratulations to the one who proposed a cpu nerf .... with faction fit just after .... clap clap clap ... you can laugh even more by looking for his stats on eve-kill. Do not waste your time looking for a kill with a typhoon, of course there is none.
Rabid Rich
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1344 - 2013-05-23 21:56:42 UTC
Well said Icarius.

ITT: people completely losing their minds over internet spaceships. Take a breath and step away from the computer. And some mod ought to take away liang's posting rights for a week- I think he needs rehab or somethingRoll .

God bless you Ccp rise.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#1345 - 2013-05-23 22:01:54 UTC
Rabid Rich wrote:
Well said Icarius.

ITT: people completely losing their minds over internet spaceships. Take a breath and step away from the computer. And some mod ought to take away liang's posting rights for a week- I think he needs rehab or somethingRoll .

God bless you Ccp rise.


Why would I need rehab? I'm perfectly fine. This is my latest picture: http://i.imgur.com/Rsy0SqU.jpg

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1346 - 2013-05-23 22:24:33 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
A potentially easy nerf/fix for the Fleet Typhoon is to cut its CPU. Which forces it to be an armor tank. An armor tank reduces the slots available for DDAs and BCUs.


And here's an example that uses 713.81 CPU out of 825. My 1500 DPS Fleet Typhoon required a Co-processor and used 847.31 out of 907.5 CPU.

So drop CPU (with skills V) to around 725 or so?
edit: new CPU would need to be lower. Will contemplate it later.

This seems reasonable at a quick glance:
459 sustained tank versus EM/Therm
1168 raw DPS
868 with missiles
300 with Garde II.

[Typhoon Fleet Issue, odyssey armor]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II


Garde II x5


edit: Some people like their sentries drones to go fast. Others don't. I'm acquiescing to the unimaginative.


nice mwd/mjd sebo eccm mods u got there...it need more faction stuff and less cpu me thinks...

what it is used for...no gate medium dmg em l4 only if there is no neuts that is?

you only need 2y of training too...seems legit...as in failed to post pve fit that ppl will use before realising that they are doing it wrong and swap to a better ship!!!

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#1347 - 2013-05-23 22:29:27 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:

nice mwd/mjd sebo eccm mods u got there...it need more faction stuff and less cpu me thinks...

what it is used for...no gate medium dmg em l4 only if there is no neuts that is?

you only need 2y of training too...seems legit...as in failed to post pve fit that ppl will use before realising that they are doing it wrong and swap to a better ship!!!


Out of curiosity, what kind of mission completion times do you get? I'd love to see a pissing contest between you and stoic over who does better. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Lugalzagezi666
#1348 - 2013-05-23 22:30:55 UTC
Roime wrote:
Rest assured that all marauders will be better than navy BS in their specialty, which is PVE, when their time comes.

Id say pve is quite general term in eve. You need someone to explain you what specialization means. I guess if some noob asked you, what are hics specialized in, you would answer "pvp."
As far as I remember ccps plan is : "Tech 1 is the reference in ship balancing, while faction ships (navy and pirate variants) are most often plain improvements, tech 2 offer a specialized purpose and tech 3 give opportunities for generalization."
Not a word implies that t2s should be outclassing faction ships in every way like golem will do to cnr in odyssey. But I guess cnr change along with 1400dps fleet phoon its the part of ccps master plan to make marauders unquestioned kings of "pve." Who knows, maybe we will even see wtfomgbbq blackops ships, since they are obviously "specialized in pvp" and they must be better in their specialty than everything else.Lol

Anyway, its good that this discussion is getting somewhere. Not that I believe it will change anything now. Btw anyone mentioning cnr and pvp in one sentence must understand, that without any utility high and proper damage bonus it is basically useless compared to fphoon and navyscorp.

Icarius wrote:
Only one guy posted a real fit with a point!!! someone we know well in amar fw.

Oh, dont worry, you will be seeing more phoons in amarr/minnie fw than you will like. Lol
And fit? Depends on use, but for example :
6x cruise launchers, 2x 800acs/2x neuts
mwd, web, point, tp/eccm/sebo/cap booster/ewar
dc, 2x eanm, 2x plate, 2x bcu
trimarks
garde 2s/ogre 2s + bunch of lights and ecms






Sunuva Gunn
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1349 - 2013-05-23 22:50:25 UTC
Deerin wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
CPU nerf suggestion


You are only looking at it from PvE angle.....and using faction mods to calculate a CPU limit. Armor PvP fits tend to be CPU intensive too.

To prevent fphoon from stepping shield tankers toes is easy.

8 4 8 5/5 keep new bonuses.

Will make the ship a strict armor tanker and will open up shield tanking role for Fpest.


This! It's a decent setup. Why mess with it?
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#1350 - 2013-05-24 06:45:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.


If we accept that PVE doesn't matter than the CNR is even more obsolete. Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a CNR:
- Less sig
- Faster
- More EHP
- More missile damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- Utility highs

Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a Pest Fleet:
- Less Sig
- Faster
- Very similar EHP
- More damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- More utility highs

Shall we go on? ;-)

-Liang


By all means, I'm not a great fan of the "new" CNR incarnation Blink


Beside, you can't deny for the price tag, the CNR is relatively obsolete in today's PvP combat - its not bringing enough to the table.


In the main though, it was a swipe at the "huuurrrr PvE doesnt matter" crowd P
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1351 - 2013-05-24 08:39:36 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.


Let me entertain you - 0 damage or drone mods, split weapon systems Typhoon Fleet Issue (I think due it's monsteruberpower it's well worth spelling the name!) is able to pull out 200k EHP armor tank (4 plates + 3 trimarks!), over 1000 DPS, supported with dualweb+scram and MWD sporting 1km/s (1,5km/s heated - check how much armor do you carry!) (Obviously you can opt to plug your explosive hole etc., triple trimarks are there just to illustrate how fast that thing is).

[NEW Typhoon Fleet Issue, Trololo]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Warp Scrambler II

Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I


Garde II x5
LakeEnd
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1352 - 2013-05-24 09:53:01 UTC
Yes great work copy/pasting the exact fit from few pages back. Idea
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1353 - 2013-05-24 09:53:03 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:
Close Range Phoon Setup.

Domi, Mega and Arma can do this too. Better in fact. Does it make them OP?
Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1354 - 2013-05-24 10:15:26 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Janna Windforce wrote:
Close Range Phoon Setup.

Domi, Mega and Arma can do this too. Better in fact. Does it make them OP?

Arma and Domi end up way slower also Arma and Mega end up losing the other web. But yeah, other than that you can get similar or slightly better dps and tank numbers from them.
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1355 - 2013-05-24 10:37:26 UTC
Deerin wrote:
Janna Windforce wrote:
Close Range Phoon Setup.

Domi, Mega and Arma can do this too. Better in fact. Does it make them OP?


Umm I think you've missed the quote above my post. The fit was linked as response to it, and I don't claim to have invented it in any way :P
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#1356 - 2013-05-24 11:19:57 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:
Deerin wrote:
Janna Windforce wrote:
Close Range Phoon Setup.

Domi, Mega and Arma can do this too. Better in fact. Does it make them OP?


Umm I think you've missed the quote above my post. The fit was linked as response to it, and I don't claim to have invented it in any way :P


Aye...looks like I missed indeed. Sorry for that.

Two weeks to release and I don't really expect anything to change from now on.

/me unsubscribes from thread.
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1357 - 2013-05-24 12:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Janna Windforce
Deerin wrote:

/me unsubscribes from thread.


That would be a shame, I've read every post in this threadnaught and it's quite amazing watching the arguments etc. :) Obviously we can't hope for more changes, unless the changes are already made, based on community imputs and will be announced via patch notes, who knows?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1358 - 2013-05-24 12:35:51 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.


If we accept that PVE doesn't matter than the CNR is even more obsolete. Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a CNR:
- Less sig
- Faster
- More EHP
- More missile damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- Utility highs

Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a Pest Fleet:
- Less Sig
- Faster
- Very similar EHP
- More damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- More utility highs

Shall we go on? ;-)

-Liang



Tempest is more vertical!!!

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Johnson Oramara
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1359 - 2013-05-24 13:33:48 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Or we accept that "PvE doesnt matter" and let it be - its not possible to fit such ridiculous gank/no tank in a valid, viable PvP fit on it.


If we accept that PVE doesn't matter than the CNR is even more obsolete. Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a CNR:
- Less sig
- Faster
- More EHP
- More missile damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- Utility highs

Consider a Phoon Fleet vs a Pest Fleet:
- Less Sig
- Faster
- Very similar EHP
- More damage
- More drone flexibility
- More drone damage
- More utility highs

Shall we go on? ;-)

-Liang



Tempest is more vertical!!!

Alright can't argue with that Big smile
Bereza Mia
Trade Federation of EVE
#1360 - 2013-05-24 14:15:01 UTC
Caldary pilots highly need a pirate missile platform to compensate this CNR nerf. Only that will prevents them from whining :)

Seriously.
Now in PVE for every weapon system (except missiles) we have two choices:
1) marauder – more tank/utility, and
2) pirate BS – more dps.
(projectyles - Vargur or Mach, lasers – Paladin or NM, hybrids – Kronos or Vind).
For missiles we have Golem and CNR (not so good as pirate ships but have more dps than T2).

But what caldary will have in Odyssey?
After caldary BS they have to learn marauders for more tank/utility OR forget about all that caldary ships and train matar BS, drones, projectiles for more dps… Cool story.