Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well, it's messy really. In terms of reducing the degree of damage mitigated by speed, a 60% web has the same effect as a 150% painter. Since 60% webs are quite common and 150% painters are, er, quite rare, then this suggests that speed is more important.

However... no amount of webbing will make a missile with a large explosion radius do full damage to a ship with a smaller sig radius., because of the hard cap of [explorad]/[sig]. The only way to get round that is via sig or explorad issues - hence the entirely reasonable claim that painters are the best mod, in conjunction with the limited range of webs in PVE applications.

This means that the CNR's 5% explorad bonus is much more powerful than the Typhoon's explovel bonus, because the explorad bonus is useful in all cases of damage mitigation, while the explovel bonus cannot bypass the signature hard cap.

You are really reaching if you're trying to pitch a totally non-existent undisclosed potential possible future Marauder buff will make the Paladin totally obsolete the NApoc. Definitely living up to your name here.

-Liang

Actually, I'm going to call you on this one. We've had a discussion a few months back about MJD CNR in Ships&Modules. Back then, you and a few others claimed that an MJD CNR was not viable because, quote "that's well outside the optimal of painters". Well, there you have it, no painter issues for a sniper missile boat :)

I'm not selling anything. I'm speculating. You're overly defensive and are going off the deep end. Your choice though.

You want to hear how i would change the CNR?

First let's talk about the cruise missile change how it increases the damage by 30% but also 10% increase in explosion radius.

All the values are missile dps only with fury ammo.
This will result in Raven with 4bcu's dealing 633 dps to ~822 dps which is quite significant damage to be dealt at 190km.

OLD CNR with 4 bcu's dealing 729 dps would go up to ~960 dps which is where the problem came in, it is simply too much dps over 190km no matter if it got a little harder appliable.

NEW CNR would be dealing same dps as regular Raven, 633 before and 822 after Odyssey.

Now here is the problem, if single turret added to the ship with 25% damage bonus is enough to make it that powerful then maybe you have a problem with your cruise missile buff? In my opinion that regular Raven too with 822 dps would be a little too good compared to other long range weapons. With other weapon systems there is variance in their dps and thus giving more choices and specialization for certain ships. After Odyssey every missile battleship will be having extremely similar dps and the ones without damage application bonuses surely know how to solve the problem.

So, i would go into that cruise missile change and reduce the damage buff (i leave the numbers to ccp). I would change the CNR bonuses to 5% rof and 10% velocity per level thus giving the damage application problem for the pilot to solve and dropping one launcher while keeping the rest as it is currently. Now it actually feels like an attack battleship and has very clear role to differentiate it from the rest.

So you're proposing we use the same bonuses it has now and we undo the (needed) cruise missile buffs. And to support this argument you use Fury dps numbers. Try faction instead. It's more likely to match reality.

The Condor has 4 mids and an excellent capacitor. It excels with LML but kinda hurts against other MWDing frigates. The Crow has only 3 mids, but has a significantly smaller sig radius and a missile velocity bonus that gives it a leg up against other MWDing frigates. They are both distinct. :)

I'm not totally sure what direction they're going to take interceptors in, and judging from the discussion earlier in the thread CCP isn't totally sure either. I'm pretty interested in finding out though. :)

-Liang

Yes absolutely. I was trying to point out that the Condor most definitely has a place. The Crow's only useful features right now are the sig and missile velocity bonuses.

-Liang

Ed: Saying the Condor hits hard though... I'm not sure I buy that. ;-)

Also, the question should probably be the Hookbill vs the Hawk. IMO they're still distinct ships.

Nah, the Condor is flat out better than the Crow now. If the Crow was better I'd fly it instead of the Condor. o/` ISK ain't a problem, I know where it goes... o/`

-Liang

Ed: I tried to put together Crow fits that could compete but the strength of that 4th mid, superior cap, and superior fittings is just not doable. As I said, the sig and missile velocity bonuses are extremely attractive to me.

I'll grant you the CPU but I'm not seeing the cap. From what I see Crow's cap is bigger - is the recharge worse? Looks like the strength comes from the extra midslot. This will probably be rectified in the balance pass though. :)

Gah! I should've picked another pair. Caracal vs Navy Caracal. Same bonuses, same ship, one's just a little stronger than the other.