Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I am curious how you justify having either a low set hard limit on engagement duration based on cargo hold or needing to sacrifice 3-4 slots to have enough cap to make anything work, slots an enemy will fill up with tank/damage/ewar. It is probably hard for you to understand seeing as you are a member of the cash-flush blob alliance extraordinaire and probably don't remember what life is like without 30 Guardians at you back, personal Titan taxis in every system and any fitting option you could possibly want.

Tracking/Range is the god combo of all time, doubly so on a laser hull (for as long as Scorch exists), but what good is phenomenal gun attributes if those guns are silenced after a few minutes?
CCP said they want to revise lasers but that it won't be until some later unspecified date, so they trundle along and remove that most hated cap bonus without taking the rather harsh effects of such a move into account .. they didn't even consider it based on the timing/reasoning of the weak emergency tweaks they agreed to make to lasers, in what can only be described as an attempt to shut people up.
The now cap-bonus-less Ships will be at a severe disadvantage outside of the free-cap-for-everyone blob due to the inherent slot tax. But you likely write the Abaddon complete absence outside of the blob off as a coincidence, so nothing we lowly peons, who actually run two digit or *gasp* one digit fleets/gangs, say will ever register in your world.

Lasers have always been characterized by hard hitting, hard fitting/operation. But tweaks/revisions to other weapon systems have over the years evened out the first while the latter remained intact. Solution doesn't even have to Amarr exclusive, a +50% to effect of elutriation rigs (incl. hybrids) or any tweaks to cap modules to lessen the slot-tax solves the problem.

PS: Hope you have a desire to flood fleet comms with cap requests and unload tons of free **** on your logi pilots if you decide to keep using (N)Apocs in a fly-swatter doctrine .. because when that bonus goes byebye they will have 10x the work in front of them.

I read through half the posts and didn't come across anything, why does the Navy Domi have 1 less slot than any of the other Navy BS's? The Scorp was "slot deficient for no reason", is the Domi slot deficient for a reason? Would it be too OP? Basically any extra slot would be helpful. I can get over it not being a better drone boat, that makes sense and I like the versatility. However being 1 slot less than all the others just doesn't make sense to me, open my eyes anyone.

Also I do not like the Navythron nerf. If anything could the near useless utility high and launcher be switched to a n extra medium slot if you are dead set on preventing any Gallente BS from having a full load out. I feel like not adding an 8th high is to preserve the Vindi as the undisputed DPS king but if the Hyperion is losing it's highs then at least let the Navy Mega have a full set. I understand that because of the increased fire rate change it would be a massive DPS increase, so why not change the fire rate bonus to something else (I dream of a Gallente sniping boat, like the Mega of old, but alas Gallente shall never have an optimal bonus) like a falloff bonus or maybe even the old damage bonus.

Now that I read that I might have to buy one and name it Elvis...

I have to say this caught me by surprise, I honestly didn't expect you to do the navy battleships in this go. As per usual, one by one:

AMARR

Apocalypse Navy Issue: Oversized T1, just like the current version. I was actually tempted to "downgrade" my alt's Apocalypse to T1 because the tracking + optimal + scorch is amazing, now I'll just get to keep the navy version instead. APPROVED.

Armageddon Navy Issue: I had hoped that you will not have turned this into a fully blown drone boat and you did not disappoint. Now with extra drone bay to make a true drone/laser hybrid. APPROVED.

CALDARI

Raven Navy Issue: Both disappointed and impressed here. On the one hand, I was really looking forward to long range overpowered battleship slaughtering CNR that the old thing would have become with the new cruise missiles. On the other hand, I knew that hull was to be nerfed eventually and I already feared the day. Then I come in here, terrified in what was to become of my beloved bird of prey - only to find this... this... this beautiful thing! /tears of joy/ First, 8 launchers, rejoice! It's less of a damage boost against large targets than the old CNR was about to be, but the damage application will be shiny, meaning it'll melt targets of very different sizes. Even more, the extra mid slot adds either a boost to tank or an extra utility, which will definitely come handy. APPROVED, +100, SIGNED, etc.

Scorpion Navy Issue: Essentially, this is now a 200k ehp beast with pre-boost CNR dps, ouch. Gotta have to test it on SiSi, but I feel like it might be a tiny bit too powerful. Then again, the new CNR and Typhoon easily beat its missile dps, so it just might be fine. APPROVED

GALLENTE

Megathron Navy Issue: Same turret DPS as the T1 version, though with an extra high for a potential dps boost from a launcher (yeah, not gonna happen) or a utility high. Other than that, a bit faster and a bit tankier than a T1, with a larger drone bay. Overall, I think it's going to be enough to make it viable, but it's also a bit boring, so ABSTAINED (I can't reject it, as I've already approved the Apocalypse above which has a similar deal with T1, but I can't approve it either, because Apoc is simply a more fun ship).

Dominix Navy Issue: Essentially the Gallente variant of the Scorpion, relatively high dps and exceptional tank, otherwise unchanged from a dual weapon boat that it is on TQ. APPROVED.

MINMATAR

Typhoon Fleet Issue: Remains versatile, but also gains some dps. In missile configuration it has slightly higher potential dps than the CNR, but less application and loses on range - this makes it an interesting reversal from T1 hulls. It keeps the large drone bay from before, meaning it might be able to offset some of the CNR's advantage against smaller targets. Missile boat to missile boat, I think the CNR is slightly better overall, though part of Typhoon's advantage is its unpredictability in fitting. The projectile version will be just as awesome. APPROVED.

Tempest Fleet Issue:

I'm struggling to find a reason to use this. I mean, it will make a decent armor alpha ship, but that's about it and I fail to see how that's sufficient a role to make it popular. For everything else, there are better options. REJECTED.


Overall: you did a good job on most hulls. Megathron could use a slight update, just to make it a bit shinier and the Tempest needs to be looked at. other than that, thumbs up.

You'll be pleased to know that we didn't do any game designing in this case. The changes were presented to us by CCP and we gave feedback on them in our capacity as your representatives. The changes were then adjusted or left in place according to that feedback process.

In this thread alone, "the community" has complained both that the Fleet Typhoon is "useless" and "grossly OP". Similar dichotimies are presented for the other ships. Which view should we be representing, in your view of the CSM?

I get to be "holier than thou" because I actually read the changes and thought about them in light of the other changes that are being presented, and I took a few moments to apply some thought as to how current fitting doctrine could be adapted to make optimal use of the new ships.

Other people simply looked at one single facet of the change constellation and flipped their ****, ignoring little things like actual numbers and the rest of the ship's stats. Being "holier" than that isn't difficult. It's easy, a duty and a pleasure.

Ok then bright guy, tell me how missile damage works, show me the math.


EDIT: All the math, as in the full missile damage formula.

You say I don't know what I'm talking about, why dont you tell me how missile damage works and is applied to a target. Feel free to use actual numbers in the formula, you can even use example ships, in example situations.

EDIT EDIT: If it makes it better for you I can even supply you with the fitted ships and stats of each to use as an example.

And with the CNR, one volley and they'll be dead. So instead of 2 volleys taking 6 seconds each, you'll need 1 volley taking 8 seconds. This is equivalent to a 50% increase in effective DPS.

Yeah I'm sorry we were only about to get you a 50% effective buff, but life is hard, you know?

In fairness to Nitrate, he's also upset by the huge sig increase for the Navy Geddon. Candidly I didn't see the reason for such a big nerf to the ship and I personally argued against it. But we're representatives, not ~game designers~, and after the person who is the game designer took on board my feedback, the sig increase was reduced a little but left in place for reasons that were good and sufficient to him (CCP Rise can explain this increase more fully if he so chooses).

I know Nitrate personally and actually he is smarter than me. In this case he's also over-reacting and wrong.

Interesting. Pity about CNR nerf tho - while the signature bonus will be certainly interesting I'm not sure that will be enough of a bonus to make it good enough with missiles against some of the alternatives. For example navy typhoon with its greater speed, higher base damage and godly drone bay with missiles, plus has couple of utility slots on top of that.

Overall seem interesting changes. I'm not happy with everything but overall seems decent enough so its probably balanced enough.

yea man, my alliance and its dirty blob, they can put a whole 100 guys in fleet, not like Provibloc who stack 300 dudes up for an important timer....

You want a Hyperion, its exactly what you're asking for, it can rep itslef, and 'manoeuver' (<--the red squigly means you spelled it wrong) and is good for solo BS work, which is basically what you're asking for.

The Amarr have never had a BS that can do that (thank god) and they never should, the entire race is built around buffer tanking, so where did you get this idea that suddenly they should get some Gallente like ships?