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Hypothetically Speaking
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Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-05-12 13:05:03 UTC
Could a person efficiently Cap escalate C5 wormholes with a Phoenix with enough target painting and webbing ships as support?

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-05-12 13:18:21 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Could a person efficiently Cap escalate C5 wormholes with a Phoenix with enough target painting and webbing ships as support?


No

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#3 - 2013-05-12 13:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Ignoring tricked out setups for a moment the problem is you run into stacking penalties on the (60%) webs and target painters before a phoenix can apply more than about 10% of its potential dps - while a moros or revelation or the new nag will be applying around 70-80% of their potential dps with the same support.


However if your completely crazy warp 3x vindis with mids full of faction/officer webs with max skirmish links + carrier + random target painting ship + phoenix to 0 on the guardian spawns and have at it. (reason for the number of vindis is to hold all the guardians inside 90% web range for the duration).
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#4 - 2013-05-12 16:42:38 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Ignoring tricked out setups for a moment the problem is you run into stacking penalties on the (60%) webs and target painters before a phoenix can apply more than about 10% of its potential dps - while a moros or revelation or the new nag will be applying around 70-80% of their potential dps with the same support.


However if your completely crazy warp 3x vindis with mids full of faction/officer webs with max skirmish links + carrier + random target painting ship + phoenix to 0 on the guardian spawns and have at it. (reason for the number of vindis is to hold all the guardians inside 90% web range for the duration).


Why would you ever use a Vindi? Vigilant would be the way to go.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#5 - 2013-05-12 17:06:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
G0hme wrote:

Why would you ever use a Vindi? Vigilant would be the way to go.


TBH I was proposing that more tongue in cheek than serious - but the extra mid means you can 90% web every single sleeper BS from the double spawn without having to chase them around and apply quite a lot of additional dps from the vindis - unless you rigor rig your phoenix those 3 vinds (combined) would be more or less matching the applied dps output of the phoenix.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-05-12 21:28:10 UTC
No

There is no Bob.

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Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-13 03:39:04 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Could a person efficiently Cap escalate C5 wormholes with a Phoenix with enough target painting and webbing ships as support?


For Phoenix to even be remotely useful for cap escalations you need paints in addition to your normal webs.

Moros is still king of the hill for escalations, but three Phoenix can clear escalation BS's off the field rather quickly.

If it's what you can fly, use it.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-14 23:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Vassal Zeren
Gotcha, thanks for the feedback.

BTW what do people think are the chances of a buff to citadel missile accuracy?

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-05-14 23:24:18 UTC
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Gotcha, thanks for the feedback.

BTW what do people think are the chances of a buff to citadel missile accuracy?


Missiles do not have an accuracy stat, the problem here is the explosion velocity

Dreads themselves were never intended to shoot small targets that were webbed / painted.

Most likely the other turret dreads will have their tracking nerfed not the pheonix explosion velocity buffed.
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-05-14 23:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Gotcha, thanks for the feedback.

BTW what do people think are the chances of a buff to citadel missile accuracy?


You mean explosion velocity?

I think we'll see something come down the pipe to deal with that issue, hopefully sooner rather than later. With the nag fix/change we already know they're taking a look at capitals and the [affirmative action] phoenix is just begging for some love.

@Oax, I doubt we'll see nerfs to tracking, except for possibly the moros because it's just a steamroller, and I don't necessarily agree with you that "Dreads themselves were never intended to shoot small targets that were webbed / painted." I'd like to believe they were designed so that's the only way that they could hit small targets, and in most cases that's how they're used in-game.

I ♥ the orthrus
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#11 - 2013-05-14 23:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Not sure Phoenix will ever get any real love towards knocking down sleepers - they were designed for knocking down structures (and other capital ships) and its only the broken chance to hit formula really that lets turret dreads hit smaller targets relatively well (tho even with it "fixed" they'd still apply dps better than citadel missiles).
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-05-15 01:09:08 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Ignoring tricked out setups for a moment the problem is you run into stacking penalties on the (60%) webs and target painters before a phoenix can apply more than about 10% of its potential dps - while a moros or revelation or the new nag will be applying around 70-80% of their potential dps with the same support.


However if your completely crazy warp 3x vindis with mids full of faction/officer webs with max skirmish links + carrier + random target painting ship + phoenix to 0 on the guardian spawns and have at it. (reason for the number of vindis is to hold all the guardians inside 90% web range for the duration).


Hmm... I am pretty crazy. Not sure if I'm completely crazy though.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-15 01:10:32 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Vassal Zeren wrote:
Gotcha, thanks for the feedback.

BTW what do people think are the chances of a buff to citadel missile accuracy?


Missiles do not have an accuracy stat, the problem here is the explosion velocity

Dreads themselves were never intended to shoot small targets that were webbed / painted.

Most likely the other turret dreads will have their tracking nerfed not the pheonix explosion velocity buffed.


Yeah, I know, I meant accuracy as in the word accuracy not as in the stat.

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Vassal Zeren
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-05-15 01:11:38 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Not sure Phoenix will ever get any real love towards knocking down sleepers - they were designed for knocking down structures (and other capital ships) and its only the broken chance to hit formula really that lets turret dreads hit smaller targets relatively well (tho even with it "fixed" they'd still apply dps better than citadel missiles).


Thanks. Well you know what this means. Cross train away...

A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.
Britta Nolen
Sama Guild
#15 - 2013-05-15 04:17:44 UTC
a torp cnr problably has better dps than a phoenix. just saying.