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The only thing that stops me playing - Jump clone timers.

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Julius Priscus
#61 - 2013-05-13 07:31:24 UTC
Ikasha Aurilen wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
The solution is kind of obvious as other have pointed out. Put in some +3s or something if isk is a problem.


I knew a lot of people would respond like this. Yes I could use +3s, but I still don't really understand the point in the timer being 24hrs instead of 6hrs. We shouldn't have to compromise for bad design.



CCP does not want monkies clone jumping everywhere every few hours...

if you don't like the mechanic... dont let the door hit your ass on the way out...
GreenSeed
#62 - 2013-05-13 08:27:06 UTC
i don't mind the jump clone timer for travel, but a timer on switching clones its a pain, they need to be two different timers, or maybe remove them completely for clone switch, and leave them at 24hrs, or even more, for travel jumps.


honestly the "clone switching" timer and the almost exponential increase in clone cost feel completely unnecessary. come odyssey i will gain almost 6m sp, i'm going to move up another clone category, and i haven't trained anything in 7 months!
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#63 - 2013-05-13 08:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Durzel
Adjust the clone jump timer according to how far away from the clone you want to jump into.

Warning: Numbers pulled out of the air

Same solar system - 1 hour
Same constellation - 3 hours
Same region - 6 hours
Neighbouring region - 12 hours
Anything else, 24 hours

Perhaps you could skew these numbers up or down according to number of jumps to destination clone.

Problem solved? People aren't then jumping from one side of the galaxy to the other constantly, but assuming you can get close to the clone you want to get into you aren't excessively penalised.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#64 - 2013-05-13 08:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Here is my alternative solution; Remove jump clones completely, remove the LP cost of implants (except named implants i.e Snake), make all non-named implants available from an NPC in all stations in the universe.

This would create a scenario where implants become cheap and easily available wherever you are.
  • Players can no longer use jump clones to travel great distances.
  • If they use their medical clone, they will lose their implants.
  • Implants will be freely available anywhere so the risk of losing implants is diminished by removing the logistics involved in acquiring new ones.
  • Implants will still cost isk so there is still a risk in using them and the player must decide on what they are willing to lose.
  • More implants will be lost due to the removal of Jump Clones and the increased use of implants as a result of easier access to implants.
  • The cost of implants is paid directly to an NPC vendor, effectively removing the ISK from the economy and reinforcing the value of the existing ISK sink due to the increase in implant purchases.

    • Just an idea which can probably be improved upon but it seems to address a few issues quite conveniently in my eyes.

    Oh god.
    Akirei Scytale
    Okami Syndicate
    #65 - 2013-05-13 08:47:48 UTC
    An EVE without jump clones is probably not an EVE I would bother playing.

    They remove tedium from the game. I don't want to fly 50+ jumps in null. I'd rather JC.

    The solution to OP's problem is to not use +5s. My training clones use +3s. EVE is a risky game. If you like to PvP, don't dump ISK on overpriced implants. Simple.
    Destination SkillQueue
    Doomheim
    #66 - 2013-05-13 08:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
    Riot Girl wrote:
    Here is my alternative solution; Remove jump clones completely, remove the LP cost of implants (except named implants i.e Snake), make all non-named implants available from an NPC in all stations in the universe.

    This would create a scenario where implants become cheap and easily available wherever you are.
  • Players can no longer use jump clones to travel great distances.
  • If they use their medical clone, they will lose their implants.
  • Implants will be freely available anywhere so the risk of losing implants is diminished by removing the logistics involved in acquiring new ones.
  • Implants will still cost isk so there is still a risk in using them and the player must decide on what they are willing to lose.
  • More implants will be lost due to the removal of Jump Clones and the increased use of implants as a result of easier access to implants.
  • The cost of implants is paid directly to an NPC vendor, effectively removing the ISK from the economy and reinforcing the value of the existing ISK sink due to the increase in implant purchases.

    • Just an idea which can probably be improved upon but it seems to address a few issues quite conveniently in my eyes.

    Or you could ignore all that and just allow instant local clone switching and reserve the timer for actual non-local jumps. If you want to go the extra mile, allow jump clones to be manufactured and sold as a commodity on the market, so they are available to everyone all throughout space. It addresses all of the complaints without requiring or causing massive shakeup in the way things work and is more compatible with the player driven focus of the game.
    Riot Girl
    You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
    #67 - 2013-05-13 09:04:39 UTC
    Destination SkillQueue wrote:
    It addresses all of the complaints

    Except 'pod express' travel.
    Quote:
    more compatible with the player driven focus of the game.

    That's true but player driven activities rarely remove ISK from the economy. I think I prefer my idea.

    Oh god.
    Mister Tuggles
    Dickhead Corner
    #68 - 2013-05-13 09:22:42 UTC
    Ikasha Aurilen wrote:
    Right now the only thing that stops me from logging in and playing everyday is the 24hr timer on jump clones. I work a 9 till 5 job. I get up at 8AM have breakfast leave at 8:30AM. I get home from work at about 5:30PM. At this point I want to relax do some PvP until I go to bed, but it always comes down to the fact that to do 2 or 3 hrs of PvP would mean being out of my learning clone for 24hrs (Assuming I don't want to risk a 550m pod every time I go out in a frig.)

    So basically I think the timer for Jump clones is absurdly long to the point where during the week I only log in to update the queue and check the trades.

    I also can't see any point in it being so long. I understand that it's in place to prevent people jumping all over the galaxy. However a timer of say 6 hours would stop people being able to do this, and it would also mean I could log in jump to a pvp clone, have some fun and jump back to a learning clone later.




    The bigger problem here is learning implants. As many people have suggest, they should just be removed and we should be given a flat SP/hr rate based on our remap at the time. I know A LOT more people that would be doing PvP if this were to happen.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #69 - 2013-05-13 09:45:52 UTC
    Riot Girl wrote:
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    Simple solution to this problem:

    Jumping into a clone with no implants to self destruct is a problem that should be kept in mind. Adding a cooldown to changing your home station could help that.

    Did you read what I said? That's exactly what I did.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Riot Girl
    You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
    #70 - 2013-05-13 09:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
    Yes, I read what you said and I agreed that it might be a step in the right direction.

    Oh god.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #71 - 2013-05-13 10:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
    It's the simplest and most equitable solution that solves both problems.

    I'm not sure what you're trying to do regarding your point about ISK in the overall economy. Implants are already an isk sink.
    There are only three ways implants are added to the game:
    1) NPC loot drop (no isk sink or faucet), some implants only get added this way (pirate implants, named implants)
    2) CCP gifts (no isk sink or faucet), the Genolution implants get added this way
    3) LP store (isk sink), the vast majority of implants players use come from this

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    EvEa Deva
    Doomheim
    #72 - 2013-05-13 10:20:29 UTC
    12 hour timer sounds good to me or 11.5 hours.
    Riot Girl
    You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
    #73 - 2013-05-13 10:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do regarding your point about ISK in the overall economy. Implants are already an isk sink.

    I'm suggesting that by making implants more disposable, players might be more inclined to lose them in PvP and replace them more frequently due to them being more freely available. This would increase the value of the ISK sink and its effect on the economy.

    Oh god.
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #74 - 2013-05-13 10:36:03 UTC
    Kirjava wrote:
    Ikasha Aurilen wrote:
    Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
    The solution is kind of obvious as other have pointed out. Put in some +3s or something if isk is a problem.


    I knew a lot of people would respond like this. Yes I could use +3s, but I still don't really understand the point in the timer being 24hrs instead of 6hrs. We shouldn't have to compromise for bad design.

    Because 24 hours was the compromise to put it in in the first place.

    Self destructing your pod was how it was done back in the day, harden up and self destruct your pod when you are already in your non training clone.



    still do this from time to time.


    Haven't flown with implants (well, barring when I need to JC because that's easier/faster than trying to get to somewhere for a few days to set market orders) in a few months...

    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #75 - 2013-05-13 10:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
    Riot Girl wrote:
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    I'm not sure what you're trying to do regarding your point about ISK in the overall economy. Implants are already an isk sink.

    I'm suggesting that by making implants more disposable, players might be more inclined to lose them in PvP and replace them more frequently due to them being more freely available. This would increase the value of the ISK sink and its effect on the economy.

    I think your solution frankly makes things a lot more complicated than they need to be.
    Your scheme also pretty much removes the need to buy most implants from another player and I think that's definitely something that CCP wants to avoid.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Riot Girl
    You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
    #76 - 2013-05-13 10:54:23 UTC
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    I think your solution frankly makes things a lot more complicated than they need to be.

    I think the concept might seem complicated but in practice, I think it's simpler than the current system.

    Quote:
    Your scheme also pretty much removes the need to buy most implants from another player and I think that's definitely something that CCP wants to avoid.
    Yeah.

    Oh god.
    Inxentas Ultramar
    Ultramar Independent Contracting
    #77 - 2013-05-13 10:58:55 UTC
    A simple solution would be to forfeit those 500 mil implants. Get podded. It truly solves more then those implants fix. Empty clones can be the norm. It's your own desire to powerlevel as fast as possible that's causing these problems.
    Tippia
    Sunshine and Lollipops
    #78 - 2013-05-13 11:00:20 UTC
    Dalmont Delantee wrote:
    So...conclusion is:

    1) OP is scared of loosing pods
    2) Some people agree as they are scared of loosing their pods too
    3) Some people want to dumb down by removing learning implants
    4) Sane sensible people realise that this is added to stop people jumping around like anything to get places easily.
    5) Other sane people actually understand that it doesn't affect their training that much and don't give a do doo either way
    It's not so much that removing learning implants is dumbing the game down; it's that learning implants make players dumb. Ship combat should not be an adverse factor to character progression — quite the opposite (but then, it would be hard to make the opposite work without turning it into some kind of grinding, which is arguably even worse).
    Thorn Galen
    Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
    The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
    #79 - 2013-05-13 11:06:46 UTC
    Tippia wrote:
    So… remove learning implants?


    From what I see in chatter in terms of players and their JC's, learning implants are a huge deciding factor in pvp participation.
    I wish it were not so, there would be so many more players taking part in good pvp pewpew. I admit that my learning implants determine my modus operandi as to when I prepare for pvp - only on weekends.

    Removing my learning implants (blank clone) affects my skill plan for the year by 16 days in the red. More and more I have asked myself - is that really such a big deal ? My answer is "no, it is not".

    Forthwith I am determined not to allow implants to affect my days and times for EVE. They become a trap, slow and insidious from the day you do that first training course.

    Skill implants for improved shields/armor/lasers etc - those are fine, they have no effect on your skill queue.
    Learning implants are slow poison and change the way an individual plays EVE.

    o7

    COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #80 - 2013-05-13 11:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
    I still think learning implants are a good thing generally because they're one way that players can have an edge over others in training speed, the other way of course being neural remaps. If one can afford that edge they should by all means be allowed to have it. But it shouldn't come at the detriment of combat PVP. There's a few ways to go about this.

    I disagree with making implants possible to unplug without destroying them because that just allows people to pod express all the time without much loss (especially not after clone prices are fixed... whenever CCP actually gets around to doing that).
    Allowing players to jump clone within stations with no timer also runs into this problem, which is why my proposal includes the timers when moving the med clone and when jumping within station to ensure that you can't do both of these within a 24 hour period (because this leads to abuse).

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)