Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You're regurgitated this minority opinion repeatedly, and it's not an opinion everyone shares.

Interestingly, the only ones that would be able to use this for ganking, in high sec at least, are covops ships.

You think this because you do not understand the time it takes to lock a ship after you uncloak.

I can sit on a gate cloaked and as soon as a war decced orca comes through I can uncloak - with a cov ops or even another ship get the tackle and then the other ships can uncloak and join in the gank. Scouting will be impossible because everyone was cloaked and not even showing up in local.

Yeah the old bait and gank is stupid. I suppose you can have fun with it for a while but it gets old. Perhaps some day you will move on and start to look for the ever elusive good fights.



If I had local I would see if the other person was in his corp or alliance. I also may have seen the other person in a different system and scanned to know what ship he was flying and if they were together. If they were in the same corp and that was not a system where the corp usually hangs out I know they are both active. Perhaps the hurricane had done the old bait and gank before. If there was local I would see him and likely not take the bait a second time. In other words local gives you some limited information to help you weigh the chances that this is a trap or not.

If your system was in place there would be no considerations at all. No one in local no one in local so you just warp to the bait ship attack and get ganked. There would be nothing you could do about it unless you want to stop pvping altogether.


As far as your comment about me being the minority and not being able to handle pvp. Its funny. Ill admit I am not very good at pvp but at least I try it. Looking at the killboards of people like you and most others who seem so in favor of this proposal (mag's being a notable exception) you don't pvp at all. This is why you don't understand the basic mechanics of pvp and that is why you don't understand the implications of this proposal.

It's as important for both sides, in other words the removal would affect both equally.

But you've kind of hit upon why this is a good idea, in your question. Local is being relied upon far too much, for instant intel.

Other forms of "instant intel:"

The 60+ hostile titans on everyone's watchlist
Cynos popping up on the system-wide overview and universe map
SBUs showing up on the overview (should we have to probe them down instead?)
Instant notification when a tower goes up in your space
Instant notification when your tower or sov structure is attacked

Should all forms of "instant intel" be removed then?

So why would he propose changes (changes that every single self-styled "small gang PvP expert" or "wormhole resident" and their forum alts have proposed) that simply don't affect him?

I've yet to hear a real, convincing argument as to why the 0.0 local channel should be set to delayed mode other than "hurr durr AFK cloakers" and "OH MY GOD INSTANT INTEL." It won't be a boon to PvP at all and, to be honest, I have not heard any further indication of changes to local from the devs since that null-sec devblog.

Ooh! This one I can answer.

It's simply because initially there were the batch of threads from people trying to nerf cloaking because of afk cloakers. Now, if you make cloaks breakable or make it possible to detect cloaked vessels, that has the detrimonious effect of nerfing wormhole lifestyle. So, as an alternate, I proposed a solution that would end the "afl cloaker menace" while at the same time not nerf other areas of the game that rely on cloaks being undetectable and effective. Hence this idea.

Everyone else was proposing ways to make null sec safer, make wormholes safer... that doesn't feel right. If anything, something should add a little more risk to null where things are far too safe compared to what many envision it should be.

Thanks for the softball question... I love you man.

Keep in mind that the brief mention that local may have to go was due to some incompatiblility with some new incarna feature. Now that ccp switched back to fis for a while perhaps local will not need to be removed.

Actually I think the intel system in eve works pretty well at least for known space. I admit that if I were in a wormhole I would get tired for constantly clicking the dscan when no one is there. You do that allot in known space too but at least you only do it if someone is in local.

I have heard this before but has a dev ever said no one at ccp knew local would be used for intel? I find it hard to beleive they would be that dumb. Not that it matters what they originally intended I'm jsut wondering if you can supply a source for this often repeated claim.

It seem to me they intentionally made it an intel tool since peoples standings to your show up in local.

They did state somewhere that local was never intended as the intel tool it is today. I'll take some time later and see if I can find that source, but I'm pretty sure my memory serves me correctly. But you are right it really makes no difference, because it is what it is now.

Incarna wasn't the only reason for local and intel being changed. Null sec has a 5 year plan for change, including intel and local, we just don't know what the changes are yet. I've not seen any indication that this plan is being shelved. I could of course be wrong.

Standings showing in local. Well that was a direct response to the client side adaptation at the time, that some large alliance(s) were using to gain more intel from local. (IIRC it meant changing the enemies picture files to something else.)
CCP seeing that they couldn't actually stop it, added it as a feature for all.

As far as CCP making dumb decisions is concerned, they do have a history of such things.