Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Only negative comments Ive seen have been over stipulating the same issues that are current issues. I dont see the point.

...How? Only players make the problem worse. Then of course why havent they made it worse yet? There is nothing stopping them right now.

Again you forget all the other people who posted the same problems in other "nerf local" threads you posted this idea in. I think people just get tired of arguing about how this will effect small scale pvp in eve, with people who don't even understand the basic mechanics of it.

Well luckily cloakerships are thinly skinned.

Because the ability to scan down cloaked ships would change this "specialty" ship into a required ship, and as a result many aspects of the game would break, including wormhole intelligence gathering. Cloaked ships aren't the problem. Knowing they're there when you shouldn't is.

And if you're going to throw out a "many aspects of the game" line, list them. Otherwise that's way too ambiguous a statement to bother considering.

I think, in your defense of intelligence gathering, you're not considering the consequences of the parent proposal.

If you're actively 'intelligence gathering" you should know when ships appear and become active and you should be moving around constantly to avoid getting caught while doing so. Gathering intelligence is no excuse for being able to safely sit idle in systems for days on end.

Will that change the way you have to go about gathering intelligence? Sure. But again, why should gathering intelligence be an excuse for remaining completely safe?

And if that's so important, why not make the specialty ship dual purpose. One high slot to fit either a covert cloak (with which it can't be scanned down under any circumstances) or a probe launcher to find other, less harmless cloakies? Now you have the option to either find a cloaked ship or be an undetectable one, but you can't fit a cyno or weapons making it useless for anything other than those two activities and far less dangerous. In that instance you can perform your intelligence gathering safely without being an actual threat to locals. However their activity is still disrupted (part of the 'fun' of being a cloaky twit I suppose) as they try safe up while they try to scan down your undetectable ship, not returning to their activity until they're satisfied you're effectively harmless other than watching.

By the proposed solution (removing any indication of a cloaked ship) a miner in null could conceivably have an entire fleet of stealth bombers gathered around waiting to decloak and blow them to bits. An orca in a belt would go from difficult to save to impossible to save. Ratter/Plexers would face similar problems in that, all the cloaked fleet would have to do is wait for some nice rat to warp scram them, decloak, and have at it.

Actually there is no problem at all with the current cloaking system. Your proposal just makes problems worse for other aspects of the game. As has been explained over and over to you in painful detail this will just be a tool to blob people.

You have no valid response to those detailed posts you just keep bumping this bad idea so others like yourself who know nothing about small scale pvp can say "sounds cool."

Wow you forgot about it already? Its one page back. Here is one of many posts that take you through the basic mechanics of pvp in eve:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=258532#post258532

Why do you assume the blob would move? Any ship that can fit a cloak could just sit on a gate and blob any small gang that takes their bait. Eve pvp will become even worse than it already is.

On the one hand, anyone who lives in wormhole space that isn't alert and attentive isn't in wormhole space for long. Now... overlooking a cloaked ship... what? It's cloaked, you can't see it. It's not there as far as all your instruments can tell you.

On the blobby hand... you mean... actually earn their PvP? If a competent group is willing to take a couple days to trickle into a system and cloak up waiting for that solo miners to come nibble rocks in null sec... well, that's a not-very-time/cost-efficient yet well-earned kill.

It's funny you mention this though... a lot of wormhole assaults work like that... you find holes into the system and maybe get a group in there unseen... if it's not enough then as more come on you get them in... hell, there was a C5 assault I had the honor of helping repel where the invading forces spent weeks trickling in and setting up. What a couple days that was... Caerain, you'd have been proud of the PvP then. It's funny how something like the current local would have ruined some pretty epic battles. It's also funny how something like being able to probe out cloaked vessels would also have ruined it. But I digress. You're right on the second point about people putting the effort into PvP being able to set things up to possibly get successful kills. But notice, if you will, they're working for it and earning it. They're adding a layer of danger to null sec that should be there. All it takes is one screw up when someone is watching to blow the whole operation... someone catches a name while they flash in local and keeps tabs on them... logged on/off, locator agents maybe, things of that nature. PvP can be had, and it needs to be earned. It's my opinion that local prevents a lot of that by constantly giving away the presence of all who are in system... hence the threads about afk cloaking (that this thread originally was meant to address).


And Caerain... all you're offering are assertions that blobs will benefit, yet others offer differing points of view. Because you assert it it doesn't take on the status of factual... nor do my claims. However there are some obvious things I personally think would be beneficial to this type of system...

1. Cloaks get to act like real cloaks. They not only cut off you from everyone else, but they cut you off from everyone else. Intel becomes an active endeavour... it's not simply sitting while cloaked and watching local. You would need to actively search things out... sit off gates, belts, stations, pos', etc. and observe.

2. Instead of cloaks getting nerfed, and by default wormholes and any other aspect of the game where invisibility is beneficial, "danger" gets a buff. Nerfing cloaks in any form softens all aspects of Eve, excepting maybe high sec. Null becomes easier and safer. Wormholes, low sec, the same. You take away the danger of the enemy unseen. You make it more carebear. Instead, this offers to keep the danger element while balancing the possible excessive use of cynos, and at the same time it makes the cloaked vessel a more interactive ship. Parking at a safe in the middle of nowhere becomes ineffective completely... you need to plan your intel and actually go where you need to see, probe what you need to find.

I agree with a statement Caerain made... cloaks are indeed fine and the system really doesn't need to change much if at all... however when thinking of what people are perceiving as an "afk cloaker" problem and some of the drastic effects their solutions would have on other aspects of the game... if something actually needs to be done, this to me seems like the best option.