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Ship Tier Rebalancing.
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Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-19 15:32:54 UTC
Just wanted to make a topic for ship tier balancing discussions. For example, how much HP, pg, CPU should be added to what ships. Mow many more slots should be added and to what ships.

For example I think that the T1 tackle frigates of all races, atron, condor, executioner and slasher should all have 3 mids so that they could at least be decent tackles.

if anyone else has any other ideas post them here.

Sydow.
Alara IonStorm
#2 - 2011-10-19 15:54:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Omen: + PG/CPU

Thorax: + PG

Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space

Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer

Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space

Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links

Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.

Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range

Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-10-19 16:18:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Von Sydow
While I agree that some useful T1 logis would be nice, I also think that they could keep their mining bonus + the new logi bonuses just so that rookie miners have something to use between mining frigs and mining barges. Since the mining bonus shouldn't affect their efficiency as logis and the logi bonus their efficiency as miners I don't see why they couldnt have both.
Another change they could do is swap the mining bonus from the vexor and arbitrator to the exequror and augoror.
Alara IonStorm
#4 - 2011-10-19 16:45:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Max Von Sydow wrote:
While I agree that some useful T1 logis would be nice, I also think that they could keep their mining bonus + the new logi bonuses just so that rookie miners have something to use between mining frigs and mining barges. Since the mining bonus shouldn't affect their efficiency as logis and the logi bonus their efficiency as miners I don't see why they couldnt have both.
Another change they could do is swap the mining bonus from the vexor and arbitrator to the exequror and augoror.

A Mining Bonus is a Waste of a Bonus that could go to something better and a Waste of Time for anyone who wants to be a Miner.

What they need to do is lower the Skill Time involved in getting a Procurer. It takes a week and a half so to get a Retreiver. You are in a Procurer for about a day before you move up. The Procurer Mines the same as an Osprey so bring the Training time in Line with it instead of wasting valuable bonus space and Training time on a Combat ship.

The best added benefit is that right now industry favors Caldari Characters, now everyone has a chance to get in on the ORE Action.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-19 17:02:08 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Omen: + PG/CPU

Thorax: + PG

Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space

Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer

Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space

Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links

Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.

Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range

Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)


Now those T1 versions would finally be useful and used for sure.

/sign
Dishonorable Death
Not NPC inc
#6 - 2011-10-19 18:41:59 UTC
They should remove all mining bonuses from racial sips and introduce a ORE faction for frigate and cruiser class ships (maybe a Gas Harvester can fit here), or introduce a new mining boat line for entry level (mining lasers only (no strips))
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2011-10-19 19:27:24 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Omen: + PG/CPU

Thorax: + PG

Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space

Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer

Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space

Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links

Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.

Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range

Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)


Moa still needs... something. So does the Ferox (for sure) and probably the other tier 1 BCs (yes, something more than the Prophecy bonus change). Non-Thrasher destroyers could use a fitting bump. Frigates are all over the place.
Alara IonStorm
#8 - 2011-10-19 19:30:55 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Moa still needs... something. So does the Ferox (for sure) and probably the other tier 1 BCs (yes, something more than the Prophecy bonus change). Non-Thrasher destroyers could use a fitting bump. Frigates are all over the place.

Cyclone would be nice with a 6th mid slot and a 6th Turret. It would be fearsome.
Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-10-19 19:49:52 UTC
The Caracal is fine its an awesome cruiser in the right hands. Ask the Caldari militia. Don't touch it.

The Caracal and the Rupture are the best t1 cruisers and should not be touched.

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 
Max Von Sydow
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-10-19 20:07:25 UTC
Anyone got any thoughts on how to balance the different frigates?
MukkBarovian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-19 20:23:10 UTC
Maller
5% Armor Resist / LVL
5% HAM ROF / LVL
5 Missile Hardpoints

Prophecy
5% Armor Resist / LVL
5% HAM ROF / LVL
6 Missile Hardpoints
+1 Slot (+1 Missile Harpoint if Highslot)
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#12 - 2011-10-19 20:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links
That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)

nah man....only useful exeq fit right now is active cap, nerfing the cargo would remove that

also...a buff to 12 of the 16 t1 cruisers...wouldn't that really just call for a nerf of the other 4?



edit: Wait a minute, you'd buff all of those and leave the Moa alone? Wha?

thhief ghabmoef
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-19 21:04:12 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:

Moa still needs... something. So does the Ferox (for sure) and probably the other tier 1 BCs (yes, something more than the Prophecy bonus change). Non-Thrasher destroyers could use a fitting bump. Frigates are all over the place.

Cyclone would be nice with a 6th mid slot and a 6th Turret. It would be fearsome.


Damn right. The Cyclone's tank is just not comparable to the Myrmidon's active tank. I mean, the Cyclone. The shield bonused, Minmatar BC. It has THE SAME AMOUNT OF MEDSLOTS. This sir, is ridiculous. Add a medslot to the Cyclone, remove one of the Myrmidon's medslot, add an additional lowslot to the Myrmidon, and you're done ;)
Alara IonStorm
#14 - 2011-10-19 21:21:41 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

nah man....only useful exeq fit right now is active cap, nerfing the cargo would remove that

It has a current base Cargo of 600m2 that is more then enough Cap Boosters to last you. Plus by increasing the base Cap, Recharch Time and adding another slot you probably will not need Cap Boosts. If you do being able to hold 20 800's is enough. Plus an Armor Transfer Amount Bonus will give you so much more then a few extra boosters.

Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

also...a buff to 12 of the 16 t1 cruisers...wouldn't that really just call for a nerf of the other 4?

The Rupture, Arbitrator and Blackbird are fine right now. But I did not say they should not do anything at all to them. I just didn't have anything to say.


Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:

edit: Wait a minute, you'd buff all of those and leave the Moa alone? Wha?

Waiting till the Rail Buff since that is what the ship is based around. Currently they are in an area I like to call less then useless. So I wanna see what they do.

These are just some of my Idea's, feel free to list your own if I missed anything.
Alara IonStorm
#15 - 2011-10-19 21:24:22 UTC
SMT008 wrote:

remove one of the Myrmidon's medslot, add an additional lowslot to the Myrmidon, and you're done ;)

No way!

Duel Cap Boost, Triple Rep.
Duel Web, Duel Rep
Sebo, Full Tackle and Cap Boost

That Midslot is Golden.
Voi Lutois
Vonkell
#16 - 2011-10-19 22:54:04 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Omen: + PG/CPU

Thorax: + PG

Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space

Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer

Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space

Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links

Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.

Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range

Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)


I would love to see something like this happen!
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#17 - 2011-10-20 09:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Alara IonStorm wrote:
- Omen: + PG/CPU
- Augoror: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Armor Bonus to +5 Energy Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Armor RR, + 10m2 Drone Space
- Maller: Prophecy, Punisher: Change Laer Cap use bonus to 5% Dmg.

- Stabber: move 1 high to a mid add a low, + 10% Speed, change the speed bonus to +7.5 falloff, add 20m2 Drone space
- Bellicose: 5% Dmg changed into 20% Bonus to Web Range
- Scythe: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, Move High to a mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to Shield Transfer Cap Use, Range bonus effect Shield Transfer, +15 Drone Space

- Osprey: +HP, +Cap, +1 Mid, +PG/CPU, Change Mining Bonus to +5 Shield Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Energy Transfer
- Caracal: +1 Low Slot PG and CPU to accommodate.

- Exequror: +HP, +Cap +1 Low, +PG/CPU, Change Cargo Bonus to +5 Armor Transfer Amount, Cap and range bonus effect Tracking Links
- Vexor: +1 Mid or Low plus CPU/PG to accommodate.
- Thorax: + PG
- Celestis: 5% Dmg changed into 10% Bonus to Scram/Point Range

That would make me smile. Useful T1 Logi's =)

That would be great!!!!! P

And let's face it: with the introduction of ORE ships CCP already rendered the mining cruisers obsolete.
It would be great if t1 cruisers all had some good use. It's not for nothing that a lot of people jump from frigates into battlecruisers because their faction's cruisers just don't deliver.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-10-20 12:26:10 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
SMT008 wrote:

remove one of the Myrmidon's medslot, add an additional lowslot to the Myrmidon, and you're done ;)

No way!

Duel Cap Boost, Triple Rep.
Duel Web, Duel Rep
Sebo, Full Tackle and Cap Boost

That Midslot is Golden.


Hey, 5 medslots on an armor tanking ship is fine, but hey, the cyclone, with his active shield bonus has also 5 medslots.

That's where something is wrong.

Tell me how can I effectively tank my Cyclone.

MWD
Scrambler
Capboosters

Those are the mandatory 3 medslots for active shield tanking.

Then you add the shield booster.

And you have ONE SPARE SLOT currently. So what, an invulnerability field ? Doesn't it looks like a paperthin tank ? 5 Slots for active tanking is possible, but it can't compete with a triplerep Myrmidon (Sure you have like 550 or so DPS, which is a little bit higher than what the Myrmidon can pull out, but you really have troubles with the tank, because it has paperthin resistances). Like, it can't at all. If you don't wanna remove one of the Myrmidon's medslot then fine, add a medslot to the Cyclone, and don't touch anything else. An armor bonused ship can't have the same amount of medslots a shield bonused ship have.. Simple as that.
Alara IonStorm
#19 - 2011-10-20 13:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
SMT008 wrote:


And you have ONE SPARE SLOT currently. So what, an invulnerability field ? Doesn't it looks like a paperthin tank ? 5 Slots for active tanking is possible, but it can't compete with a triplerep Myrmidon (Sure you have like 550 or so DPS, which is a little bit higher than what the Myrmidon can pull out, but you really have troubles with the tank, because it has paperthin resistances). Like, it can't at all. If you don't wanna remove one of the Myrmidon's medslot then fine, add a medslot to the Cyclone, and don't touch anything else. An armor bonused ship can't have the same amount of medslots a shield bonused ship have.. Simple as that.

I was the one who said give the Cyclone a sixth mid in the first place as well as an extra turret. That would give the Cyclone one more slot then the Myrmidon which has one less then the other Tier 2 Battlecruiser do to it's large Drone Bay. 5 Mid, 6 Lows just works for the Myrmidon.
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2011-10-20 13:29:57 UTC
Oh then sorry, my mistake :/
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