Warfare & Tactics

how is the new system which has seen amarr and caldari come back a few times and earn isk not better than during inferno when amarr was rofl stomped for fun and only managed 1 cash out in 5 months? id say that was more stagnent imo

The problems amarr had with inferno had nothing to do with a cashout or the current type of tier system. The amarrs problems with inferno generally were:

1) They started out with most systems being bugged and in the minmatars control. So amarr had to move. This early start where minmatar were able to make huge amounts of isk through a not yet completely devalued lp store was very demoralizing.

2) The rats were badly unbalanced for a considerable time in fw where due to ewar amarr had essentially kill all the rats while the minmatar could speed tank them.

3) The amarr ended up with lots of people like Cynthia nezmor telling people to defensive plex instead of offensive plex. And also to flip systems right away. This just fed the minmatar farm.

4) There was a legitimate issue whether amarr would have been able to hit a tier 5 cashout due to the speed that the minmafarm would plex back systems. Could amarr flip 80% of the systems before minmatar started farming them back? The problem there was more of the massive number of farmers drawn by the huge amount of isk just as much as the cash out system per se. But yes it was something that may have been a problem with the cashout system. CCP did away with the whole system before we could find out. But if was a problem ccp could have done some things to help in that regard. Like say that a system would not spawn plexes for x amount of time after it was flipped. That would have added to the time amarr needed to get through the structures. There were other tweaks that could have been done.

Thats just a few. Of these problems only the last is at all attributable to the cashout system.

Why not play the game for yourself and not worry so much about what everyone else is doing?
Just let the farmers farm and go do whatever you like to do.

They are not exploiting or breaking the EULA so it's all just bitching for nothing.

Cearain thinks the only motivation people have in game is to maximize isk return.

Sure there were people who did that at first because getting the huge reward before the lp market adjusted to the new mechanic meant much more isk. That is another reason the minmatar got such a huge benefit from the short 5 months we had cashouts. Since there wasn't enough time for the market to adjust it was better to be in the side that hit tier 5 quicker. But if they would have waited for the market to adjust it would have been fine to be any militia assuming they could all hit tier 5.

I'm not saying there needed to be changes to help amarr specifically - just changes to make sure the side with fewer players had the ability to hit the higher tiers for a cashout. Otherwise the war will just be imbalanced.


I'm not sure what you mean. You were talking about being in the minmatar amarr zone before inferno. The rats were not balanced then. The rats were not balanced until after inferno hit. The earlier cashouts were worth more than the later cashouts because the market was not yet adjusted. The early imbalances and bugs ensured that the minmatar had a huge farming horde that lasted through the short time we had cashouts. its only now that the lp market is finally starting to adjust (combined with other changes unrelated to the cashout system) that we are seeing the minmifarm possibly start to lose its dominance.

Give me the tl;dr version please.

No you just want to make it an LP/ISK centered game



Hold on didnt you admit to having alts in fw for making isk.... ?




So pvp on ur pirate main and cry for ccp to bring back cashouts so you can score with ya alts i get it now all the while someone else does the hardwork for you (Real Fw Pilots)

If I remember correctly the downtime issue was actually fixed before inferno. Balancing the rats didn't happen until after inferno though, thats true.



I did have some alts in fw but those subscriptions have expired. Funny thing is what you suggest I do only works with the current system and not the cashout system. The current system encourages parasite alts to join the militia after the regular members brought it up from a lower tier. The parasites then procede to get 2xs as much lp for their time as the regular members got.

In the cashout system it was the regular militia members who fought through the lean times that got the big payday. Joining a militia after they hit a high tier often meant you were too late.

With the cashout the alts were doing the work to hit tier 5. The fact that inferno was very conducive to farming is a seperate issue from the cashout.

Now for example you have amarr regulars doing the work to get to a higher tier and then the alts come and make several times the lp per plex that the regulars received. Its completely backwards now.

Again lots of people stuck with minmatar after inferno because the lp values did not fully adjust in the first 5 months and people didn't really understand the system. It was such crazy amounts of isk everyone was trying to cash in as fast as possible before the lp values bottomed out. If you could make 1 billion per hour per account plexing now you would see just as many people farming under the current system. But the lp values have stabilized so farming is not as much of an issue.

Getting 5k isk per lp was pretty standard before inferno. Then they gave the crazy price cuts so you were getting 20k isk per lp. How long before the market would crash? No one knew so there was a rush to whatever side looked like it provide the most lp market items at tier 5 right now. But that wouldn't be the case forever, specifically after the market bottomed out. And eventually people would learn that those few unique amarr items would be very worthwhile if they got up to tier 5. But ccp changed everything before this could be tested.

I am not sure what you are saying in the first part of your post.

With no lp for defensive plexing it would have happened eventually. After the market fully adjusted (it never did before 10/22/12) and the rush to cash in fast ended the amarr would have realized they would make just as much isk plexing for amarr. But again the plug was pulled before the lp market adjusted and people fully understood the mechanics. Even at the end there were some amarr still arguing we should defensive plex.

The current system, on the other hand, is structured so that you are better off having an alt ready to farm lp for the enemy when they hit a high tier.