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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Implement a "CCP Account Balance" to make Bond / Securities market viable.

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Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-05-10 04:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
The Bond and Securities market is a joke because there is no legal or credit consequences if someone scam, it would be much more viable if they implement a Real Money Escrow System.

It would be similar to the Blizzard Account Balance, but not quite the same. Diablo 3's auction house is directly connected to Paypal, so a system like this is definitely possible.

So the Real Money Escrow System would be connected to an In-Game Bond market. If a player wants to issue a Bond, he would have the OPTION of putting real money into "CCP Account Balance" as collateral for the bond Principle.

The money would be confiscated ONLY if he defaults on the PRINCIPLE, and not the monthly interest payment. If this happens, the investors would get their money back in the form of ISK.

Edit: So it's still a free market. It would be like Government Bonds vs. Private Bonds. In this case, the real money escrowed bonds would be directly competing against non-escrowed bonds.

For Example: If you want to issue a 10 Billion ISK bond, you have to put $350 USD into CCP Account Balance (and of course you would pay the transaction fee). The $350 would be locked for the term of the bond........whether it's 3 months, 6 months, or 1 year.

At the same time, CCP can use the player's money to earn interest, and do other fun stuff for the length of the bond.

This could also be connected to the CCP Store. When the Bond Issuer fulfilled all his duties, he would be showered with discounts, and advertisements encouraging him to spend his balance on other CCP Products.

Though this could be a costly and unprofitable system to implement.

What do you think?
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#2 - 2013-05-10 05:00:51 UTC
This is not the forum you're looking for.

Katrina Oniseki
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-05-10 06:27:59 UTC
Never happen.

Next.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-05-10 06:36:44 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
The Bond and Securities market is a joke because there is no legal or credit consequences if someone scam, it would be much more viable if they implement a Real Money Escrow System.

It would be similar to the Blizzard


Get out.

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Bruce Kemp
x13
Train Wreck.
#5 - 2013-05-10 06:40:35 UTC
This idea is the worst i have ever heard,

There is the door kid, use it.

Evil
Evil
Evil
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#6 - 2013-05-10 08:18:41 UTC
And, since CCP isn't in the business of helping people cash out via RMT, at the end of the bond, successfully delivered or not, the depositor would get their cash back.

I support this idea. Little free Rep Grinding Savings Account/CD.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
#7 - 2013-05-10 08:20:01 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
This is not the forum you're looking for.

Please don't send him to MD, we get enough of these kind of ideas and suggestions as it is.

Nyan
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-10 08:25:04 UTC
Ahahaha CCP isn't going to open the pandora's box of bullshit that is that idea just to protect MD idiots from getting robbed blind by month-old NPC corp alt posters

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#9 - 2013-05-10 14:53:18 UTC
Moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-05-10 15:13:33 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
This is not the game you're looking for.



Fixed
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-05-10 15:40:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Am I getting so much hate just because I mentioned "Blizzard"?

Or if you really think this is a bad idea, I would be happy to hear why.... (other than the potential expensive cost to implement =P)

Eve should be Harsh and it is. But you've also heard this term so many times: Eve is Real.

Well, in the Bond / Securities market, Eve is not Real. Because even in RL, there are serious consequences when you scam people out of their money.....including jail.

So this would be a Bond market backed by the issuer's Real Money.

I think many more people would be willing to participate in this market, when they know there is skin in the game.
Goti fase
Faulcon de Lazy
#12 - 2013-05-10 16:17:33 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Am I getting so much hate just because I mentioned "Blizzard"?

Or if you really think this is a bad idea, I would be happy to hear why.... (other than the potential expensive cost to implement =P)

Eve should be Harsh and it is. But you've also heard this term so many times: Eve is Real.

Well, in the Bond / Securities market, Eve is not Real. Because even in RL, there are serious consequences when you scam people out of their money.....including jail.

So this would be a Bond market backed by the issuer's Real Money.

I think many more people would be willing to participate in this market, when they know there is skin in the game.


It is just a bad idea.

Sure the bond/securities market is crap at the moment but this is not the way to fix it. Not even sure where to begin with fixing it but using real money should not come into it.

Perhaps some sort of contract with negative sec rating implications if you fail to repay by a certain date or something like that.
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-05-10 16:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Goti fase wrote:
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Am I getting so much hate just because I mentioned "Blizzard"?

Or if you really think this is a bad idea, I would be happy to hear why.... (other than the potential expensive cost to implement =P)

Eve should be Harsh and it is. But you've also heard this term so many times: Eve is Real.

Well, in the Bond / Securities market, Eve is not Real. Because even in RL, there are serious consequences when you scam people out of their money.....including jail.

So this would be a Bond market backed by the issuer's Real Money.

I think many more people would be willing to participate in this market, when they know there is skin in the game.


It is just a bad idea.

Sure the bond/securities market is crap at the moment but this is not the way to fix it. Not even sure where to begin with fixing it but using real money should not come into it.

Perhaps some sort of contract with negative sec rating implications if you fail to repay by a certain date or something like that.


Well, I did mention that the Real Money is only used to secure the Principle.

This is also an optional system. Bond issuers don't have to use it - but they would have to offer higher interest for more risk. Because investors would be attracted to bonds that are backed by CCP Escrow.

If the Bond Issuer defaults, the money will be returned to Investors in the form of ISK. In this situation, it would be win-win for both CCP and Investors. CCP gets $350, Investors get their money back. The Bond Issuer knew the risks, and clicked "I Agree" before going in.

People convert Real Money into PLEX into ISK all the time.

And as I said before, more rules can be implemented to make the system more complete....for example, the bond issuer has 3 months after the due date to re-pay the principle to investors, then their money would be confiscated.

I am open, and like to hear why this is a bad idea. "It just is" a bad idea......is not really a good reason =P
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-05-10 17:09:32 UTC
The basic issue is that the plex sales are definitive. They can show that a player was charged x amount of money, and in return they were granted a in game item, which was then claimed.

When you start setting up a market as you suggest you're pitting credit companies against CCP. A in game "scam" could propagate out of game into credit charges, which would be very bad for CCP. CCP allows scams to exist because they control the entirety of the in game market system. Once that system is connected to outside credit systems they get tied up in legalities and rules for consumer fraud protections.

In short, a system like this could have an end result of charges from CCP getting flagged as high risk for fraud by credit companies, which is generally considered "bad."
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-05-10 17:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Ersahi Kir wrote:
The basic issue is that the plex sales are definitive. They can show that a player was charged x amount of money, and in return they were granted a in game item, which was then claimed.

When you start setting up a market as you suggest you're pitting credit companies against CCP. A in game "scam" could propagate out of game into credit charges, which would be very bad for CCP. CCP allows scams to exist because they control the entirety of the in game market system. Once that system is connected to outside credit systems they get tied up in legalities and rules for consumer fraud protections.

In short, a system like this could have an end result of charges from CCP getting flagged as high risk for fraud by credit companies, which is generally considered "bad."


I understand what you're saying.

But this would be a similar system that Blizzard is using for the Real Money Auction House, are you saying Blizzard (one of the biggest gaming company), has just pitted all the credit companies against them?

Also, a player would have to click "I Agree" on a few online contracts. Just like you have to do before you use Blizzard's system.

So first, a player has to "Report an illegal Charge" even though they know they clicked "I Agree". Then, when the Credit Card company inquires about the charge with CCP, they can just pull out the online contract that the player clicked "I Agree" to.
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#16 - 2013-05-10 17:22:25 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:


What do you think?


CCP has had a long standing and strong aversion to connecting the EVE economy in any way to the real economy.

Over the years there has been a certain tolerance of RMT and macro ISK making because it had some utility to the internal game economy but even these things are "tolerated" as opposed to "desired".

Your proposal seems to suggest underwriting in-game bond and securities transactions with real-world money, and while I agree with you that this would put the pain for scamming where the pain belongs, it's an idea that has no chance of getting off the ground.

T-
LINETRAP
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-10 18:01:00 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Am I getting so much hate just because I mentioned "Blizzard"?

blah blah blah

Because even in RL, there are serious consequences when you scam people out of their money.....including jail.

blah blah.


But New Eden is a glorious libertarian society (for capsuleers at least). The market is fine without intervention.

What's wrong with you? Do you hate freedom or something?
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-05-10 20:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
I guess people are missing the part where I said it's an Optional system, directly in competition with non-escrowed Bonds?

So it's still a free market. It would be like Government Bonds vs. Private Bonds.

Players still have the option and freedom of non-escrowed bonds.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-05-10 21:09:51 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
I guess people are missing the part where I said it's an Optional system, directly in competition with non-escrowed Bonds?

So it's still a free market. It would be like Government Bonds vs. Private Bonds.

Players still have the option and freedom of non-escrowed bonds.


See? Trolls. This is why we can't have nice things in Eve.Roll

Btw, +1