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Wars against new player friendly corps
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Valari Nala Zena
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-05-11 01:24:46 UTC
In EVE there are people here who will be nice to you and as soon as they have your trust, rob you blind.
And nobody is gonna stop them violating the trust they gained.

It's a fact you are going to have to deal with, there is no disagreeing in this.

If you must ask, why are they doing this, it's because they can, this is a game, and even your feelings are fair game here.

In fact that is what a lot of people are after, your "tears".
Crying and complaining only makes people laugh at you, and when they laugh, they are having a good time.


If you are getting attacked and can't blob them, then you blue-ball them.
You don't give em fights, you don't say anything ever, you just sit there afk wasting their time get them bored out of their minds.

If you wanna fight:
Now this is hard to do with vagabonds, you come in range with a frigate, they will kill you and love it.
If you blob them, they will run at high mwd speed and you will be wasting your time catching them if they are any good.
But they will love you for trying.

So you either be able to probe them down and drop some curses and rapier/huginns on them or you simply blue-ball.
Six Six Six
Doomheim
#122 - 2013-05-11 01:59:25 UTC
Equinsu-Ocha Warthog wrote:

So my point is that there should be some kind of new player benefit. I'm not talking about giving us +100% hit points and damage, nothing like that. But I would like not to be a target of his. It is not a fair fight.



Sounds like you should have stayed in the starter NPC corp. Most fights in EvE are not fair, a bit like real life.



Equinsu-Ocha Warthog wrote:

I'm thinking a solution where new players would be "out of bounds" for more experienced players, maybe 6 months or older. Ofcourse everyone could still attack us, but concord would still interfere. If the less experienced player attacked the experienced player concord would not interfere, war like it is today.
The main issue is that when the war targets is online i cant be out of the spacestation if they are after me, i will lose my ship, and ships arent easily replaced in the start. - I know the first rule of Eve, dont fly ships you cant afford to lose, I can afford to lose this ship, and i wouldnt mind loseing it to another guy, with 6 days experience.

They started this war, we did not agree to be the targets, and most of our corporation members doesnt have a chance against these guys. So basicly they could just aswell fly around and gank us without us being at war, the war is just a cheap way of avoiding concord doesnt punish them for their actions!.


If you had stayed in the starter NPC corp you were in you would not be facing the problem you have now, i.e hiding in a station.

You did agree to be a target once you left the NPC corp and joined a player corp that could be war-dec'd.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#123 - 2013-05-11 02:59:33 UTC
Valari Nala Zena wrote:
If you are getting attacked and can't blob them, then you blue-ball them.
You don't give em fights, you don't say anything ever, you just sit there afk wasting their time get them bored out of their minds.

Blob and blue-ball.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Doddy
Excidium.
#124 - 2013-05-11 03:17:46 UTC
If its a corp worth joining they will band together and defeat the enemy. If not you should have stayed in npc corp where war deccer can't hurt you. Its hardly the war-deccers fault.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#125 - 2013-05-11 03:30:02 UTC
Doddy wrote:
If its a corp worth joining they will band together and defeat the enemy. If not you should have stayed in npc corp where war deccer can't hurt you. Its hardly the war-deccers fault.

NPC corps are amazing !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2013-05-11 05:53:11 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
NPC corps are amazing !


Only the right ones, for the right players. The wrong NPC corp sucks (one of my alt's NPC corp is dead every time I'm on).

Remember you are in a powerful, well organized null alliance. Not every corp has its act together. Some intentionally, some not.

Finding a fun corp to be in that has its act together is one of those things you just have to bare through if you aren't lucky.

I can has blogging skills!
Dyphorus
Inritus Astrum
#127 - 2013-05-11 06:41:01 UTC
NPC corporations are safe from War Decs. By joining a player corp you are taking your first step into the wider world of EVE. The simplest solution is not to take that step if you aren't ready. There's nothing stopping you from playing with other members of an NPC corp, so you don't have to go it alone.

Many of us enjoy EVE simply because it doesn't hold your hand every step of the way. EVE is brutal and unforgiving, and that's why we love it. There are a hundred MMOs that will pet you and tell you you're special, we don't need another game like that.
Prototype SV-17
State War Academy
Caldari State
#128 - 2013-05-11 07:58:08 UTC
I agree with you about war declarations. It is a broken system imo that seems aimed to discourage new players from joining corporations.

War declarations are utterly absurd. The idea that you can just pay the police for the right to kill someone is absurd. I don't see how this is really any different than me, as an individual, paying CONCORD to allow me to kill another individual player. Who needs to suicide gank when I can just hand over some ISK and blow up whoever I want in high security space.

You would think there would be some sort of political or standing system in which if Corp A attacks Corp B then Corp A would lose standing (something like security standing). Then and only then could a war dec be declared AND be reasonable for CONCORD (the so-called "peacekeepers") to acknowledge the war dec as valid and allow combat in high sec. In null sec they can do what they want, but high sec is supposed to be high sec. I can see two null sec corps with assets and sovereignty warring and that war being allowed to spill into high-sec, but do war decs even require the aggressor to have assets, like a POS, or territory to lose? As far as I know it requires no prior encounters between members of any corps. So you literally don't even have to risk anything or even be aware of who you're even fighting against. The aggressor get what they want (being actively criminal in hi-sec) and the defender has no recourse because the space cops are institutionally crooked. I would say not to join a corp, but "guilds" are a pretty basic MMO institution. sRandomly killing each other because somebody paid off the police isn't war. It's null sec.

Six Six Six
Doomheim
#129 - 2013-05-11 08:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Six Six Six
Prototype SV-17 wrote:
I agree with you about war declarations. It is a broken system imo that seems aimed to discourage new players from joining corporations.

War declarations are utterly absurd. The idea that you can just pay the police for the right to kill someone is absurd. I don't see how this is really any different than me, as an individual, paying CONCORD to allow me to kill another individual player. Who needs to suicide gank when I can just hand over some ISK and blow up whoever I want in high security space.

You would think there would be some sort of political or standing system in which if Corp A attacks Corp B then Corp A would lose standing (something like security standing). Then and only then could a war dec be declared AND be reasonable for CONCORD (the so-called "peacekeepers") to acknowledge the war dec as valid and allow combat in high sec. In null sec they can do what they want, but high sec is supposed to be high sec. I can see two null sec corps with assets and sovereignty warring and that war being allowed to spill into high-sec, but do war decs even require the aggressor to have assets, like a POS, or territory to lose? As far as I know it requires no prior encounters between members of any corps. So you literally don't even have to risk anything or even be aware of who you're even fighting against. The aggressor get what they want (being actively criminal in hi-sec) and the defender has no recourse because the space cops are institutionally crooked. I would say not to join a corp, but "guilds" are a pretty basic MMO institution. sRandomly killing each other because somebody paid off the police isn't war. It's null sec.




Is the war-dec system really broken, seems more like an after thought to me in an attempt to make high-sec safer so as to appeal to a wider audience.

High-sec isn't totally safe and shouldn't be, EVE so far hasn't been turned into a theme park like so many other MMOs, which is part of its charm. People like the harsh environment, if high-sec was too safe it would become very boring (imo).


I look at EVE like:
The EVE universe is like a sea where the small fish try to stay out of the way of unknown larger fish by staying near the rocks and weeds (NPC corps) or staying amongst larger known fish (Player corp, corp mates), but even amongst the known fish there's always a chance one might bite you.


EVE at its core is essentially a PvP game but you need safe spots so the small fry can develop and NPC corps do this quite well. But I'd hate for this game to end up with high-sec being totally safe as that would be a step in the direction of EVE becoming just another theme park.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#130 - 2013-05-11 08:57:09 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Doddy wrote:
If its a corp worth joining they will band together and defeat the enemy. If not you should have stayed in npc corp where war deccer can't hurt you. Its hardly the war-deccers fault.

NPC corps are amazing !


at least one of them is probably better than the majority of carebear corps.

fleet combat is difficult outside of null though...

forums.  serious business.
Aston Martin DB5
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#131 - 2013-05-11 08:58:30 UTC
His flying a ship called Vagabond, it would take me 67 days to learn to fly that ship, and then I still need to train to use the modules.

Welcome to the least rewarding game on the market :)

Oh wait it's a sandbox and you can do whatever you want (minus the toys you can play with at your disposal).
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#132 - 2013-05-11 09:02:40 UTC
There are so many things wrong in your post I couldn't care to point them all out.


All I'm going to say is, everybody in the game has been in a similar position as you were once. There are no special shortcuts, deal with it.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#133 - 2013-05-11 14:15:48 UTC
OP, to be honest, Eve is hostile to new players and you have tons of bitter vets who just want to sour the experience of new players. It is filled with trolls and griefers. Yes, the cards are stacked against legitimately new players. Running a new player friendly corporation is probably one of the biggest challenges in Eve.

This is the price we pay for having a game which is different than other games. So yes, it can be unfair and frustrating at times, but it is worth the price of admission. When I was a noob, I had some griefer sit outside a station waiting for me for 3 hours (I came home from the mall and he was still there, lol).

Through the asshattery trial by fire, you may find good friends, fun adventures and adrenaline pumping experiences you simply cannot get in other games. This is why you should take some of the non-troll advice in this thread and stick it out. It will be worth it.

No good deed goes unpunished
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#134 - 2013-05-11 14:48:25 UTC
Aston Martin DB5 wrote:
His flying a ship called Vagabond, it would take me 67 days to learn to fly that ship, and then I still need to train to use the modules.

Welcome to the least rewarding game on the market :)

Oh wait it's a sandbox and you can do whatever you want (minus the toys you can play with at your disposal).

Funny thing is Vagabonds are totally inappropriate ships to use in a highsec war being extremely fragile and lacking utility med slots. A bunch of poorly skilled newbies could deal with that if they cared to.

And let's not forget the ally system exists.

OP has entirely skipped playing the game as way to deal with in game problems and immediately resorted to whining on the forums. I don't see his EVE career lasting very long.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#135 - 2013-05-11 15:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
Have you ever considered, just ONCE, that maybe, just MAYBE these hi-sec wardeccers are providing an invaluable community service?

How would you propose players start the game? In completely insurable safety, never experiencing the slightest risk, while hanging out with the hisec carebear crowd that focuses on padding their wallet as though that is a goal in itself?

So, our new player gets nice and fat, isk-rich, while still never learning a single thing about combat mechanics. They train up for bigger and better ships, and are never once at any risk of losing them. Then, one arbitrary day, they are no longer considered 'new players', and their shiny 'investment' gets a-sploded before you can say "scan res".

Did this insular carebear newbie benefit from never experiencing risk?

Who would have a better understanding of game mechanics at (say, arbitrarily) 6 months into the game?

A player who has been 'forced' to adapt, and make pvp thinking their normal mode of thought.

or....

A player who has experienced nothing but clicking red crosses on an overview, never once thinking of pvp, or anything but their wallet.


Your corp should not exist, THIS is the true problem. Your own CEO, by your admission, has ZERO knowledge of combat mechanics, or for that matter, the game-world around him. Running anoms in amamake? I could have told you when I was two weeks into the game that is a bad idea. But, I had experienced players to talk to, ask questions. Pirates that knew all the dirty tricks and ways out of them, an industrial corp that lived in lo-sec (their miners introduced me to the idea of an intel network). If you stay in this corp led and filled with people who don't know the game, you are understandably going to be targeted, and if you allow it: victimized.

SO!

Drink a Cup of Concrete (tm)

Find a New Corp (tm)

Harden the **** Up (tm)

and

Welcome to EVE (tm)

but please, don't

Go Back to WoW (tm)

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Souchek Lehman
Doomheim
#136 - 2013-05-11 16:30:54 UTC
Same boring arguments on this thread as every other.
OP, the easy answer is just to teach you Malcanis' Law. "Anything that helps a new player helps an old player more". If they made a system that somehow protected new players for any usefull amount of time it would be immediately gamed by older players for whatever purpose.
Good luck man, hope you do not get discouraged, we really all have been there before. There is some good advice buried in all this chest-beating. If your ever looking for some help with ideas of how to fight back feel free to EVE-mail me.

Fly dangerous.

S.L.

TEN THOUSAND YEARS - Recruiting chill dudes for exploration! In game channel - 10k lounge
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#137 - 2013-05-11 16:40:25 UTC
Equinsu-Ocha Warthog wrote:
Lots of Stuff

Just....stop.....

Play something else...I hear "Dress Up Barbie" has lots of cool outfits...
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2013-05-11 17:30:06 UTC
You've learned that nonconsensual PvP is possible in highsec, you now have some options:

- Join another corp
- Stop trying to take a vagabond on 1v1 in a frigate (hint: vagas are really good at killing frigates)
- Kill the guy with corpmates (they're called wardecs for a reason)

If your corp can't be bothered to even attempt to blow that guy up, sorry princess, fault's on you and not the game.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#139 - 2013-05-11 17:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
How do you eliminate competition.... You do it by killing off a possible hostile corporation before it has even begun by targeting its newbs.

Sorry your having a bad experience, but this is a perfectly legitimate tactic to use. Your corporation leaders should have considered this possibility and found ways to mitigate it before even starting a corp heavily reliant on new players.

My advice would be to join a different corporation that can actually provide proper protection to you, or quit the corporation and enjoy and easier life whilst your learning in an NPC corp. You had a choice to leave the relative safety of a NPC corp, and you can always return.
Asmodai Xodai
#140 - 2013-05-11 21:30:39 UTC
Quote:
I know the first rule of Eve, dont fly ships you cant afford to lose...


No, the first rule of Eve Online is that you don't talk about Eve Online.

The second rule of Eve Online is that you don't talk about Eve Online.

The rule you quoted above is the THIRD rule of Eve Online.

At any rate, the first thing I would warn you about is forum trolls. There are forum trolls here worse than you've ever encountered on any other forum, and they are allowed to run rampant without any consequences. Consider yourself warned.

Anyway, I guess your situation sucks. However, you may not want to hear this, but there's an easy remedy: just join an NPC corp for a while (like, whatever generic corp the game assigned you when you first started out). Then you aren't a war target in highsec - the guy coming after you would lose far more to Concord than you would lose.

Another approach: What you have to realize is, you are basically invulnerable to this griefer at this stage in your career, if you play your cards right. What I mean is, noobships are free. Also, your clones are free at this stage, and will cover your skillpoints completely. This means you can't be hurt. He can blow you up 100 straight times as you undock, and you still haven't lost anything.

So if he's camping your station, don't undock in anything that isn't a noobship, and don't carry anything in the cargohold. Just use the noobship to go where he isn't, so you can conduct your business (mining, mission running, whatever). Make sure to watch out for him wherever you end up.

If all your stuff is at that station, be creative. For instance, sell your frigates at that station, then buy new ones at another station where he isn't. Or, put out a courier contract to haul your stuff to another place - he can't touch it if it's in the freighter of another player.

I'd just join your corp and go over and chase him off for you, but I can't do that without leaving my current corp. Anyway, consider it a challenge, like "how do I outsmart this nitwit so I can play the game and do what I want?" Also, make sure you save him under your contacts, so you can hunt him down later when you are big and strong.