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The beginning of the end for World of Warcraft?
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Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#41 - 2013-05-12 22:18:26 UTC
age of conan
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#42 - 2013-05-13 12:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelique Duchemin
baltec1 wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:



We will never really know that until we find out what share of the accounts are alt accounts. Eve greatly rewards people for having multiple accounts. It also punishes people for not doing so by making it impossible to train more than one character per account at the same time. The Campaign to make people get "a second pilot" has been pretty fierce as of late.


But then Eve as a whole is a drop in the ocean compared to the financial figures WoW handles.


I cant think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account.



Any besides eve it seems.

Take Wow for example.

In one account I have:

A paladin that I use for PVE, heroics, raids, RP, Enchanting
A Hunter I use for PVP and Jewelcrafting
A Druid I use to Mine and gather herbs
A Death Knight that that has alchemy
A Warrior that is a blacksmith


I log into the Paladin, do heroics, make my way through the "looking for raid" raids. Make the weekly valour cap and then raid the molten core for some RP stuff.

I can then log into the hunter, do a few battlegrounds, reach the conquest cap in the Arena.

If I need flasks or potions I can gather herbs on my druid and then send them to the Death Knight to make the flasks.

If I need gems I can mine ore on mu druid and then send the ore and gems to my hunter to make the gems.

if I need armor made I can mine ores on my druid and send the materials to my Warrior that then crafts it.

All of this is one account, one subscription and all characters are played to their full potential. Just because an Eve characters skill points tic 24 hours a day does not mean that there's no more real life time room for other characters.

I usually do all that in two evenings or one Saturday.

What's the eve equivalent of all I just mentioned?

The Paladin would probably equate a mission runner or some incursion stuff.
the Hunter a null pvp character
The druid is a miner/salvager/hacker
The death knight and Warrior and the hunter+ paladins professions probably equate to some industry alts that are locked down in stations or pos's. Building/researching


Just because CCP figured out that they could charge you for each character doesn't mean that you couldn't juggle the lot of them on the same account in practise. But CCP are brilliant for making you think so.


Personally I wouldn't mind being able to train 4 characters on one account at the same time.

I could have one miner alt, a scanner alt, I would totally have an alt for building stuff.

But then CCP would never implement that when they can charge for 4 subscriptions to give me that. Plus it means they have an extra 3 subscriptions to inflate their numbers to show off for the stockholders.


I am personally surprised that people are so accepting of the current system.

Could you imagine if you could only do one of the things I mentioned above per Wow account?

Like either have a PVE character or a PVP character. Or needing a separate account for your crafter and gathered. People would flip if they tried that.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-05-13 13:19:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Angelique Duchemin wrote:



We will never really know that until we find out what share of the accounts are alt accounts. Eve greatly rewards people for having multiple accounts. It also punishes people for not doing so by making it impossible to train more than one character per account at the same time. The Campaign to make people get "a second pilot" has been pretty fierce as of late.


But then Eve as a whole is a drop in the ocean compared to the financial figures WoW handles.


I cant think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account.



Any besides eve it seems.

Take Wow for example.

In one account I have:

A paladin that I use for PVE, heroics, raids, RP, Enchanting
A Hunter I use for PVP and Jewelcrafting
A Druid I use to Mine and gather herbs
A Death Knight that that has alchemy
A Warrior that is a blacksmith


I log into the Paladin, do heroics, make my way through the "looking for raid" raids. Make the weekly valour cap and then raid the molten core for some RP stuff.

I can then log into the hunter, do a few battlegrounds, reach the conquest cap in the Arena.

If I need flasks or potions I can gather herbs on my druid and then send them to the Death Knight to make the flasks.

If I need gems I can mine ore on mu druid and then send the ore and gems to my hunter to make the gems.

if I need armor made I can mine ores on my druid and send the materials to my Warrior that then crafts it.

All of this is one account, one subscription and all characters are played to their full potential. Just because an Eve characters skill points tic 24 hours a day does not mean that there's no more real life time room for other characters.

I usually do all that in two evenings or one Saturday.

What's the eve equivalent of all I just mentioned?

The Paladin would probably equate a mission runner or some incursion stuff.
the Hunter a null pvp character
The druid is a miner/salvager/hacker
The death knight and Warrior and the hunter+ paladins professions probably equate to some industry alts that are locked down in stations or pos's. Building/researching


Just because CCP figured out that they could charge you for each character doesn't mean that you couldn't juggle the lot of them on the same account in practise. But CCP are brilliant for making you think so.


Personally I wouldn't mind being able to train 4 characters on one account at the same time.

I could have one miner alt, a scanner alt, I would totally have an alt for building stuff.

But then CCP would never implement that when they can charge for 4 subscriptions to give me that. Plus it means they have an extra 3 subscriptions to inflate their numbers to show off for the stockholders.


I am personally surprised that people are so accepting of the current system.

Could you imagine if you could only do one of the things I mentioned above per Wow account?

Like either have a PVE character or a PVP character. Or needing a separate account for your crafter and gathered. People would flip if they tried that.

He obviously meant to say that: "I can't think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account at the same time.", since it's what you said and he was responging to you. Even EVE allows you to train more than one character on an account. You just train them at different times just like in your example about WoW.

The likely reason why you have problems accepting the system is, because you try to compare to a game, that functions completely differently. There are no EVE equivalents to WoW characters. EVE characters can do it all and have no artificial caps to what skills they can learn and what ships they can fly. It's actually quite easy to do almost every major activity in EVE on a single character. It's the specializations, that take time to learn, but they're not necessary to get into an activity. It's specifically designed this way, because they didn't want everyone to be perfect at everything and wanted people to form corporations where people would have to rely on each other. You can bypass this limitation, but you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.

It's a natural way to do things in EVE, since this is a sandbox where player interaction is everything. Having easy to access fully specialized alts of all accounts, that have no limits on what they can learn or do isn't good for EVE. It would just mean less variation between accounts and less reliance on other players. In WoW classes are from the start limited in what they can ever learn and personal/small group themepark rides are the main focus, so a similar approach doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. The players would be bored to death of it very quickly, since the characters are so limited and the limit is so easy to reach. For them those extra characters are needed to keep people subscribed to the game.
Rain6639
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2013-05-13 13:44:16 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Do you think Eve should be worried?

I would like everyone to know I have added a sixth account, and I remain confident that with our scamming and market trading practice, a Save Ferris EVE fund can be organized
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#45 - 2013-05-13 14:23:24 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
He obviously meant to say that: "I can't think of any MMO that will let you train more than one character on an account at the same time.", since it's what you said and he was responging to you. Even EVE allows you to train more than one character on an account. You just train them at different times just like in your example about WoW.

The likely reason why you have problems accepting the system is, because you try to compare to a game, that functions completely differently. There are no EVE equivalents to WoW characters. EVE characters can do it all and have no artificial caps to what skills they can learn and what ships they can fly. It's actually quite easy to do almost every major activity in EVE on a single character. It's the specializations, that take time to learn, but they're not necessary to get into an activity. It's specifically designed this way, because they didn't want everyone to be perfect at everything and wanted people to form corporations where people would have to rely on each other. You can bypass this limitation, but you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.

It's a natural way to do things in EVE, since this is a sandbox where player interaction is everything. Having easy to access fully specialized alts of all accounts, that have no limits on what they can learn or do isn't good for EVE. It would just mean less variation between accounts and less reliance on other players. In WoW classes are from the start limited in what they can ever learn and personal/small group themepark rides are the main focus, so a similar approach doesn't make much sense from a business perspective. The players would be bored to death of it very quickly, since the characters are so limited and the limit is so easy to reach. For them those extra characters are needed to keep people subscribed to the game.


You make the misstake of assuming that the physical levelling of the character is the total of the characters progression. in WoW character progression is very condensed. Both Eve and WoW discourage extreme grinding for character progression through their systems of progression.

in WoW you level your character through your gear while in Eve you level through the passive increasing of the skills.

Take PVE and PVP in WoW. You do your raids and cap your valor points and that's it. Your progression is "done" for the week. There's nothing else you can do to rush your characters progression for the remainder of the week.

The eve equivalent is that the skills level at the rate they do and there's nothing you can do to rush it beyond the boundaries set by the game.

The difference is that after you finished one characters progression in WoW for that week. You can still work on another character on the same account. Maybe do the raids on an alt or cap the arena on an alt or have multiple characters with crafting professions.

But eve doesn't have that option. It only allows you to progress one character per account at the same time and the reason for this is "cause" and then done. And for some reason people accept that.


It's like if WoW had one weekly raid cooldown for the whole account or one valor cap or conquest cap for the whole account. in Eve people counter this by just making more accounts and then progress on more characters by having more accounts which is bypassing a mechanic who's only reason to exist is to make us get more accounts.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#46 - 2013-05-13 18:23:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Brujo Loco
Daimon Kaiera wrote:
Eve is dying.


So far with a quick google search , at least since May 2007 when someone was commenting in Gamespot "EVE IS DYING", answering someone else saying the space genre was dying too.

Yep.

Edit: If someone finds an earlier mention of it , Ill be glad to add it to my link repertoire.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#47 - 2013-05-14 18:33:08 UTC
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#48 - 2013-05-21 03:02:27 UTC
Panda BS killed it

Abide
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