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Ice Changes - Too Disrupting a Transition?

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Dr Gaijin
The Northern Navy Shipyard
National Development and Reform Commission
#1 - 2013-05-09 17:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Gaijin
CCP will, in one fell swoop, destroy an entire way of life with this upcoming patches. They are dismantling EVE's industrial backbone in favor of focusing on the financial sector in Jita, while unemployed ice miners are told "too bad, get a new job, the Ice industry just isn't tenable anymore". At the very least CCP should offer job-training programs to help former botters transition to another occupation in this new society CCP seems so determined to push on us... otherwise, I would not be surprised to see many of these players end up in roving Nullsec or Pirate gangs, harassing the remaining productive members of society not ensconced in their protective 4-4 cocoon.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-05-09 17:20:25 UTC
Dr Gaijin wrote:
CCP will, in one fell swoop, destroy an entire way of life with this upcoming patches. They are dismantling EVE's industrial backbone in favor of focusing on the financial sector in Jita, while unemployed ice miners are told "too bad, get a new job, the Ice industry just isn't tenable anymore". At the very least CCP should offer job-training programs to help former botters transition to another occupation in this new society CCP seems so determined to push on us...


They're already well suited to being loot pinatas. I suggest CCP give them expensive ships full of treats to fly around aimlessly.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2013-05-09 17:21:22 UTC
Lol

Also, nah.
Dranchela
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2013-05-09 17:24:05 UTC
Adapt or die.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#5 - 2013-05-09 17:25:23 UTC
Yup, all the botters are gonna have to farm something else now.



☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Din Chao
#6 - 2013-05-09 17:26:41 UTC
Incursions 2.0: Roving gangs of smart-bombing Rogue-Mackinaws
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-05-09 17:29:46 UTC
Dr Gaijin wrote:
otherwise, I would not be surprised to see many of these players end up in roving Nullsec or Pirate gangs, harassing the remaining productive members of society not ensconced in their protective 4-4 cocoon.

Lol Yeah right, you're not fooling anyone. They'll just rage quit.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#8 - 2013-05-09 17:34:27 UTC
ITT: Concerns that bots will need extra babysitting to mine ice. Independent players laugh all the way to the bank.
Forum Clone 77777
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-05-09 17:36:44 UTC
Ice belts are being made into anoms? Is it so hard to just scan a system and warp to the ice belts? Really?
Or did I miss something? (Its probably.. Maybe this, but please explain)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#10 - 2013-05-09 17:40:10 UTC
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Ice belts are being made into anoms? Is it so hard to just scan a system and warp to the ice belts? Really?
Or did I miss something? (Its probably.. Maybe this, but please explain)

You're missing that you don't need to scan anything, since the ship will do it automatically for you when you enter the system. P
Johnnie Blue
30plus LLC
Brave Collective
#11 - 2013-05-09 17:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnnie Blue
Dr Gaijin wrote:
while unemployed ice miners are told "too bad, get a new job, the Ice industry just isn't tenable anymore". At the very least CCP should offer job-training programs to help former botters transition to another occupation in this new society.



Look to Thatcherism and introduce a Miner Opportunities Programme (MOP). Get those lazy asses off their asses before they start claiming CCP unemployment benefit! They work for a set wage where ever CCP send them. Send them to Neg Ten or Shadow Cartel fo work experience??
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-05-09 17:45:59 UTC
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Ice belts are being made into anoms? Is it so hard to just scan a system and warp to the ice belts? Really?
Or did I miss something? (Its probably.. Maybe this, but please explain)


Because scripting bots to open the system scanner, scan the anom, and warp-to is extra work. Scanning it for them and setting it all up as a fleet warp is extra work.

Also, the ice anoms tap out and then respawn a few hours later, breaking up the formerly constant flow of ice. This necessitates additional babysitting of bots, and leaves some players with restricted playtimes with no ice to mine in their local systems.

IOW, this is a concern to bots and people who don't have the available playtime to sit around and wait for ice respawns in their usual highsec systems.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-09 17:50:41 UTC
I confess that I am mightily confused. Wouldn't the information that the change might cause botters real problems and move them into another play style be considered a huge design victory for CCP if true? I am probably missing something here.

Private sig. Do not read.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-05-09 18:06:21 UTC
Shao Huang wrote:
I confess that I am mightily confused. Wouldn't the information that the change might cause botters real problems and move them into another play style be considered a huge design victory for CCP if true? I am probably missing something here.


You probably missed the part where no one is really taking the OP seriously.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Anton Menges Saddat
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-05-09 18:17:27 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Forum Clone 77777 wrote:
Ice belts are being made into anoms? Is it so hard to just scan a system and warp to the ice belts? Really?
Or did I miss something? (Its probably.. Maybe this, but please explain)


Because scripting bots to open the system scanner, scan the anom, and warp-to is extra work. Scanning it for them and setting it all up as a fleet warp is extra work.

Also, the ice anoms tap out and then respawn a few hours later, breaking up the formerly constant flow of ice. This necessitates additional babysitting of bots, and leaves some players with restricted playtimes with no ice to mine in their local systems.

IOW, this is a concern to bots and people who don't have the available playtime to sit around and wait for ice respawns in their usual highsec systems.

sadly, this sounds pretty spot-on
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#16 - 2013-05-09 18:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Their shouldn't even be Ice in highsec.

The Tears Must Flow
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#17 - 2013-05-09 18:26:07 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Shao Huang wrote:
I confess that I am mightily confused. Wouldn't the information that the change might cause botters real problems and move them into another play style be considered a huge design victory for CCP if true? I am probably missing something here.


You probably missed the part where no one is really taking the OP seriously.


He probably also missed the part where we're about to get a snapshot via the in-game economy of just how much ice really is mined by afk bots versus idle players.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-05-09 18:30:43 UTC
Excellent post.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#19 - 2013-05-09 18:36:24 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
You probably missed the part where no one is really taking the OP seriously.


...including the OP.

From a bot-fighting point of view: The (mostly older) players who still haven't gotten wind of CCP's new stance on botting, and who casually bot up a little extra ISK for PVP ships because they CBA to do PI, will have all their bots broken. CCP has historically been pretty lenient on these guys. This is another wake-up call for them. The ones that go to the trouble of getting new bots after theirs break? Guilty.

Otherwise, I'm just going to sit back and see how the changes fall out. I'm not sure anybody knows, which makes it even more interesting.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-05-09 18:53:31 UTC  |  Edited by: LHA Tarawa
The reason they were moved to anoms was to give CCP a mechanism to make them limited, without them being limited to just euro timezone.

If they shrunk the belts down to 12,500 chunks of ice, then had them respawn at downtime (as the belts do), by the time USA players got home form work, there would be no ice.


So, CCP made them 2,500 block anoms and made them auto-respawn 4 hours after they are emptied. If they are mined out 5 times a day, same 12,500 hard cap on total ice availability. With anoms, CCP gets to hard cap how much is available, without limiting that availability to only players that can be on right after downtime.


Depending on how this turns out for ice, I would not be shocked if ore is next to get this treatment. Already being done in null with grav sigs becoming ore anoms. Easy enough to turn that on for high sec.


How soon after that could downtime go away entirely?
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