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New Idea to Fix 200Ship Blobs Dominating Null (Giving Smaller Alliances a chance)
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Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-05-09 16:05:03 UTC

Hello, I am relatively a new player so I am aware what I am going to offer will have many con's from the view of oldschool players well and definitely the Goons would hate me :))

Anyway here it goes... Currently The big Alliances have such domination over the Null Systems its that no small corp or even a small-mediocre cannot hold on any systems without getting blues to their bigger brothers; whom from time to time decide to go wild and destroy any small alliance just for gigles (Ofcourse they dont war after each others stations / systems as the biggest alliances hold the insane passive isk making moons and would cause each other untold destruction if they did) But they can simply decide to rip apart some smallar corp / alliance with forming a say 500Drake blob or whatever, and just annihilating any opposition with the force of sheer numbers "regardless of skill or tactic"

In order to remove the numbers meaning so much, CCP could introduce some "Smaller Systems" or "Bottle Neck" systems through medium or larger ones so that "ANY GIVEN TIME, THE SOVEREIGNTY HOLDER CAN HAVE 100 (Decide number) SHIPS MAX FLYING AND any NON-SOV HOLDER SHIP LIMIT IS ALSO 100... This time there would be more like Chess battles and much smaller alliances could hold their ground even vs. Goons ... Like giving 300Spartans a chance vs 250,000Persions by putting them to the "PASS" instead of open ground where the spartans would be massacred in seconds...

Please put your thoughts.

Thx in advance
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-05-09 16:16:40 UTC
Spv holders log in 100 of their guys, and bring in 100 alts/friends.

Now the system is literally untouchable.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-05-09 16:25:21 UTC
Well Thought !!

Though 1. New mechanic could be introduced to counter that.

2. No Small or even Mediocre Alliance could log 100+100 ppl just to wait for enemy assault which is not even coming. And when the attack comes... the slots are filled by the enemy.

Still anyway it would be better than the current situtation where "Big Brothers are Blue or Not ?? Thats what matters" Curently no two alliance in Null can even fight without getting pwned by the big brother of the other...
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2013-05-09 16:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
"CCP... it's unfair that other people have numerical advantages over us despite all the effort they put in to maintaining it... create a mechanic to get rid of this advantage and artificially level the playing field."

Oh yeah... and if you are limited to bringing 100 ships then you bring in ships setups that can't really be countered by 100 other people. Pantheon carriers are designed to hold off against superior numbers and can bulldoze their way through any force that "stands still."

You also can't stop 3rd parties (alt or allied alliances) from coming in and aiding or destroying everyone because the server does not distinguish between friendly, hostile, or neutral players in null-sec (those are player made distinctions).

How did you Veterans start?
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-05-09 16:33:00 UTC
No its like that :

CCP its unfair that, regardless of what u try to do, 400kids can simply bulldoze their way through any solid though defence, mere numbers is the only and sole thing that matters as eventually if u r not a part of the big brother you cannot exist...

And well I dont believe the big Alliances would be "destroyed" by that.. Still very few corps / alliances can field 100 ships any given time (and remember 100 is merely a number which can be discussed and decided for say 200 ? 50 ? ) And giving the smaller alliances a "chance" should not be viewed as tearz
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2013-05-09 16:36:03 UTC
Storm Airkian wrote:
Well Thought !!

Though 1. New mechanic could be introduced to counter that.

2. No Small or even Mediocre Alliance could log 100+100 ppl just to wait for enemy assault which is not even coming. And when the attack comes... the slots are filled by the enemy.

Still anyway it would be better than the current situtation where "Big Brothers are Blue or Not ?? Thats what matters" Curently no two alliance in Null can even fight without getting pwned by the big brother of the other...



I never said the second hundred had to be in the alliance. They could very easily be a mix of cyno alts, random locals, friends of the alliance, tourists and bored neutral gangs looking for good fights. If you can get one hundred in, the second really wouldn't be hard. Even fifty random alts and allies would make the fight near unwinnable for the aggressor.

As for new mechanics, they'd be gamed just as easily as the basic idea. It really wouldn't be difficult.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-05-09 16:39:32 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Storm Airkian wrote:
Well Thought !!

Though 1. New mechanic could be introduced to counter that.

2. No Small or even Mediocre Alliance could log 100+100 ppl just to wait for enemy assault which is not even coming. And when the attack comes... the slots are filled by the enemy.

Still anyway it would be better than the current situtation where "Big Brothers are Blue or Not ?? Thats what matters" Curently no two alliance in Null can even fight without getting pwned by the big brother of the other...



I never said the second hundred had to be in the alliance. They could very easily be a mix of cyno alts, random locals, friends of the alliance, tourists and bored neutral gangs looking for good fights. If you can get one hundred in, the second really wouldn't be hard. Even fifty random alts and allies would make the fight near unwinnable for the aggressor.

As for new mechanics, they'd be gamed just as easily as the basic idea. It really wouldn't be difficult.



I agree with u I did not mean the other 100 would be in same alliance as well... I get your point and its a solid one... Still I believe u cant sit 150-200 or whatever ppl waiting there.. and if u can do that you can do it only in a few choice systems at the same time which would be way better than a big alliance holding 90 systems at the same time (like now) just because no one dare to get 1 in fear of hostile response...
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-05-09 16:41:24 UTC
If this change was implemented alliances like TEST (hi!) and Goons would become incapable of losing systems.

Also, even if this system was somehow implemented in a way that couldn't easily be abused, people seem to forget that TEST and Goons are no longer just "that bunch of low sp players who have no e-honoure" and both actually have lots of high-sp pilots. Heck, Goons could probably just put 100 bap-dreads in a system to hold if this change happened.

P.S.
Also there's that whole thing that everyone and their mother has pointed out and will continue to do so: It would be really terrible to punish large alliances for being good at the game.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-05-09 16:48:26 UTC
Xavier Thorm wrote:
If this change was implemented alliances like TEST (hi!) and Goons would become incapable of losing systems.

Also, even if this system was somehow implemented in a way that couldn't easily be abused, people seem to forget that TEST and Goons are no longer just "that bunch of low sp players who have no e-honoure" and both actually have lots of high-sp pilots. Heck, Goons could probably just put 100 bap-dreads in a system to hold if this change happened.

P.S.
Also there's that whole thing that everyone and their mother has pointed out and will continue to do so: It would be really terrible to punish large alliances for being good at the game.



Yep I dont believe Large Alliances should be "punished" and afterall that large alliance could keep sending wave after wave high cost ships to eventualy overwhelm the defense...

Well they would even LIKE it if they like some "challenge" in game... I doubt they find it soo very fun to win matches where they would still win if every one shio had fit only 1 gun and 1 module...

Ofc a Tengu pilot who loves to hunt Retrievers wont like this idea... But any Tengu pilot who would like to fight at least vs. a T2 Cruiser would find this a good chance... (If u get my point) and still no small alliance could possibly try and capture a big brothers prime or valued system ...
Madlof Chev
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-05-09 16:53:09 UTC
Why don't you make some friends about it
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-05-09 16:56:23 UTC
I have even better idea: Give alliances Magical Soul Power, and if pilot count in a fleet is smaller than the opposing fleet your ships get Arcane Weapons Of Death On The Storm buff that makes your guns shoot Seed Of Corruption, a dot that ticks for 10% of enemy ehp passing resistances and after the ship is destroyed is spread in 20km radius to all ships that dont have Magical Soul Power activated.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#12 - 2013-05-09 16:58:07 UTC
I'm still trying to understand what's broken about a numerically superior force being able to defend the territory they've claimed.

The way to 'fix' big Nullsec alliances is to go recruit a metric ton of sycophants from unrelated forums and social outlets, build a gigantic alliance of your own, and topple their tower. Sound like a lot of work? It is, and these current nullsec alliances have already done it. I wouldn't hold your breath for CCP to help you play catch up.
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-05-09 16:58:36 UTC
Storm Airkian wrote:
Xavier Thorm wrote:
If this change was implemented alliances like TEST (hi!) and Goons would become incapable of losing systems.

Also, even if this system was somehow implemented in a way that couldn't easily be abused, people seem to forget that TEST and Goons are no longer just "that bunch of low sp players who have no e-honoure" and both actually have lots of high-sp pilots. Heck, Goons could probably just put 100 bap-dreads in a system to hold if this change happened.

P.S.
Also there's that whole thing that everyone and their mother has pointed out and will continue to do so: It would be really terrible to punish large alliances for being good at the game.



Yep I dont believe Large Alliances should be "punished" and afterall that large alliance could keep sending wave after wave high cost ships to eventualy overwhelm the defense...

Well they would even LIKE it if they like some "challenge" in game... I doubt they find it soo very fun to win matches where they would still win if every one shio had fit only 1 gun and 1 module...

Ofc a Tengu pilot who loves to hunt Retrievers wont like this idea... But any Tengu pilot who would like to fight at least vs. a T2 Cruiser would find this a good chance... (If u get my point) and still no small alliance could possibly try and capture a big brothers prime or valued system ...


No small alliance could capture anything. Your suggestions would make the game EVEN HARDER for smaller alliances in 0.0 and also introduce needless, unexplainable restrictions to the game. This wouldn't be a challenge, it would be tedium (and once again, I mean that it would if it worked like you want it to, which it wouldn't).
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#14 - 2013-05-09 16:59:00 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
I have even better idea: Give alliances Magical Soul Power, and if pilot count in a fleet is smaller than the opposing fleet your ships get Arcane Weapons Of Death On The Storm buff that makes your guns shoot Seed Of Corruption, a dot that ticks for 10% of enemy ehp passing resistances and after the ship is destroyed is spread in 20km radius to all ships that dont have Magical Soul Power activated.


I can't believe you forgot to suggest Magic Missile.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-05-09 17:27:33 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:

I can't believe you forgot to suggest Magic Missile.


That might be a little op, maybe only when Magical Soul Power level reaches beyond 9000.
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-05-09 17:45:30 UTC
Well I was aware the Goonz would hate the idea... Still as I understand your point is : Game is intended that you are not meant to exist in null if your body count is less than a zerg.. Anyway that was merely what it was "an idea"

And if the best thing u come to counter is "Dont hate goonz, we are pro - we r perfect u fail" it means it could work..

btw Warcraft has that kind of idea in PvP (not world PvP but battlegrounds - arenas- PvP zones ) and despite tonz of killers that game still works...
Storm Airkian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-05-09 17:51:39 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I'm still trying to understand what's broken about a numerically superior force being able to defend the territory they've claimed.

The way to 'fix' big Nullsec alliances is to go recruit a metric ton of sycophants from unrelated forums and social outlets, build a gigantic alliance of your own, and topple their tower. Sound like a lot of work? It is, and these current nullsec alliances have already done it. I wouldn't hold your breath for CCP to help you play catch up.


Its definitely "not" broken, its the way of the real world history even... Just city states failed to exist on their own...

Also it not required to be implemented to whole eve.. They could just implement a "Region" with the idea which our superior goon wannabe's would not be able to dominate with numbers so smaller alliances could live and thrive in even fighting each other over small gains (a single system ? two ? )
Xavier Thorm
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-05-09 17:54:00 UTC
Storm Airkian wrote:
Well I was aware the Goonz would hate the idea... Still as I understand your point is : Game is intended that you are not meant to exist in null if your body count is less than a zerg.. Anyway that was merely what it was "an idea"

And if the best thing u come to counter is "Dont hate goonz, we are pro - we r perfect u fail" it means it could work..

btw Warcraft has that kind of idea in PvP (not world PvP but battlegrounds - arenas- PvP zones ) and despite tonz of killers that game still works...


Goons wouldn't hate the idea. As I already pointed out, they would love it for good reason: It would make then invincible.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#19 - 2013-05-09 18:00:14 UTC
Storm Airkian wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
I'm still trying to understand what's broken about a numerically superior force being able to defend the territory they've claimed.

The way to 'fix' big Nullsec alliances is to go recruit a metric ton of sycophants from unrelated forums and social outlets, build a gigantic alliance of your own, and topple their tower. Sound like a lot of work? It is, and these current nullsec alliances have already done it. I wouldn't hold your breath for CCP to help you play catch up.


Its definitely "not" broken, its the way of the real world history even... Just city states failed to exist on their own...

Also it not required to be implemented to whole eve.. They could just implement a "Region" with the idea which our superior goon wannabe's would not be able to dominate with numbers so smaller alliances could live and thrive in even fighting each other over small gains (a single system ? two ? )


Isn't that what NPC nullsec is for? Small alliances squabbling over systems that they'll never really have true control of?
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-09 18:03:39 UTC
I agree with you, that trying hard in a small alliance is a pain, and these Blob players live in a safer environment then Hi-SEC so they are big care-bears!

I already lived in "the last independent alliance of scaling pass", 2 systems sov, no outpost, no ice belt, constantly being atacked by big blobs. it was a good time this day we called some frinds to help us althoug: http://evenews24.com/2012/03/19/disaster-strikes-for-fail-the-legion-drops-it-like-its-hot/

Then we moved to WH-Space...

Now we are at hi-sec running incursions....

So... Don't expect that these guys in the forum to understand your game-play.

Although, the solution for this problems lies on features that easy small aliances gameplay. the blob will always be a threat... but if ccp add random ice belts... fix technetium... revamp sov and revamp pos... we might have a chance...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
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