EVE General Discussion

Unless you wanted that DSP, the reasons to before this change remain after it - getting Jump Portal Generation. Aside from that and the DSP there's no need currently really - very few things rely on having eight rather than seven probes.

EDIT: What's more it looks like they're giving the 8th probe back anyway.

There is a practical limit to scan strength vs getting results - scan passes. When you resolve a sig in two passes (initial 8AU > 2AU, lock), it's difficult to improve anymore.

I'm not really against the improvements to scanning usability. Moving and resizing tweaks are fine, preset formations are fine. How they, and the whole "exploration expansion" is implemented is terrible, and the dev replies in the test server threads are telling- they had no clue how people use DSPs for example.

If I was asked how to improve scanning and exploration, my priority list would have been:

- fix the arcaic dscan interface (slider thumb, preset ranges and angles, km/AU toggle, visual HUD indication of angle)
- reconsider ship restrictions and sec status distribution of DED sites
- redesign sites to have random features
- introduce more sites
- introduce new types of sites

I certainly wouldn't have removed the options to launch any number of probes, remove DSPs or force probe return on jump. I just don't see the problems those changes are trying to solve. I don't understand why everyone HAS to see system sigs on every jump. Making exploration more accessible? Lowsec exploration was among the first things I did in this game, during my first month. I never felt scanning was "hard", "tedious" or not accessible to new players. I didn't have awesome skillls or faction equipment, or a Tengu.

None of those are needed. T1 scanning frigs today are tailor-made for exploration, and a Vexor+Imicus pair was enough for me to run all the sites I found up to 4/10s.

It was fun, challenging and rewarding. I had a lot of fun discussing and testing scanning techniques and comparing efficiency of probe formations. There is no concensus even today about the "best way", people have their own preferences and styles- limiting everyone to 7 probes and 7 probes only, would not only take away all that, but also limit the intel you can read from probes in space. And relaying false intel with your probes. Just like forcing auto-return to cargo on jump.

Last, I'm strongly of the opinion that there would have been much more important UI fixes in the pipeline than probing. Corp roles and drones > scanner.

It doesnt make Tengu's go away, but all I said that the playing field is slightly more level for people running a T3 ship cherrypicking their ideal sites and newer players who havent found out about Deep Space Probes and DPS guides.

I dont think exploration was ever intended for launching 1 probe and blitzing the best results you read in a excel sheet. Thats not really exploring is it?

The actual DSP part of "Tengu blitzing" is insignificant compared to the actual site running advantage. DSPs aren't the real problem, it's the overblown rewards and allowing T2 and T3 ships in starter area sites, and blitzable site design.

The DSP part is at least somewhat relevant, since it is what allows experienced probers to ignore most of the "bad" sites and focus exclusively on the good ones. It's a huge time saver and is a significant contributor to the fact, that you only have minutes before a good site is interrupted, which in turn makes running them in bad ships/fits very tough. It's also the reason why some can get high income from the sites, since they can filter out most of the time wasting activities, that significantly reduce the level of income for the non-DSP explorers. I'm not sure how overblown the income is though, since it isn't steady income and it is just on par with other more reliable income sources.

As far as blitzing sites is concerned, why is it a problem needing a solution? If I wanted to grind NPCs, I'd run missions, incursions or belt rat. The only valuable or interesting thing in those sites is the one loot drop and the competition is high, so why would anyone not try to blitz things. If you force time consuming grinds on those sites, that can't be bypassed, it just means it'll turn closer to mission running, ensure there is a queue waiting for the final loot to drop and the one with the fastest reflexes gets it. That isn't me just guessing things. We have sites like this and they start with 1 guy clearing most of the spawns and end with 2-3 guys camping the final spawn trying to shoot, loot and scoot before the others can do the same. The lack of blitzing options just radically reduces your chances of getting anything out of a site. They're also the most boring sites to run even though the pay is pretty good and steady, so I'd rather not see any increase in their number.

You can ban T3's and T2's all you want though. I have no issues using faction/deadspace fitted T1's to run those sites. Either way you're not going to be competing on equal footing unless you're prepared to invest heavily in your ship and implant set.

I have a slightly different opinion about the impact of the DSP guides but otherwise I agree with you.



I dont want rookies in battlecruisers, and in fact, its not even the Tengu thats the problem but the combination that makes it less attractive to newer players. I rather not want CCP to enforce restrictive gameplay like kicking Tengu's out of highsec, even blitzing is fine by me. A newbe can fit his ship so he can blitz those sites as well.

For a person without DSP's it takes considerable time to spot a site he wants to run and even more plowing through 15 systems. Compare that to your avarage risk averse Tengu explorer. Never leaves the safety of highsec and takes only 10% of the time to find a site he actually wants to run. With the new scanning system the playground is slightly more even, and still favorable to the Tengu player. No problem there.

The speed and flexibillity the Tengu provides should be the reward, not finding the best site in a faction of the time it takes a regular player.

I went to SiSi to see new probing and must say I dont like it much.There are several things that are really annoying.
I dont know was it my fault or you cant launch one probe anymore ,but you need to have seven in launcher to make it even work.
You cant launch nine probes anymore ,so cube shape dont work anymore.
Scan result menu is really bad for people that have problems with colors,it maybe looks nice but it is really not practical to point that you have hard time sometime to read what says there.
Shortcuts are changed to shift+alt+move and kinda for me not so great for using.
When you launch probes they dont show on map on your ship you see them on sun ,is that bug or what I dont know.
When you enter station your probes are landing in your cargo hold.so you cant leave them in some shape in system anymore ,cause when ever you leave system or dock probes come back.
I didnt saw any timer for duration of probes in space ,so I dont know is that intended or just they didnt polish it enough.

Maybe this are not final changes ,but so far for my personal use they look like not so practical.

Also one thing not related to scaning ,when you are killing something it your locked target starts to flash and stays on screen for 1-2 sec ,I dont know what good that is bringing to players tbh.