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Dumbed down probing.
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Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-05-10 00:07:34 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Anyone else play with probing on the test server yet?

WAY easier.
1) No matter your skills, you can (have to) have 7 probes.
2) Click one button, 7 probes appear in perfect pattern
3) Move all is now default (have to hold shift to move only one)
4) Changing resolution and moving all probes can now be done with a single click-drag. Use the sphere that shows the scan range of a probe to rezise that one probe, all the probes resize and move to maintain the ideal overlaps in the perfect pattern.


1) Abloo
2) bloo bloo
3) bloo bloo bloo
4) bloo bloo bloo bloo


Now that scanning doesn't take the dedication of both ADD and Aspegers syndrome to do. We can now complain about how it's too "easy".

This is exaclty what CCP needs to be doing. Soundwaves's war on loading bars needs to extend to spreadsheets and grind.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-05-10 00:24:41 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I've done quite a bit of probing on the test server since this was introduced there.
I can probe exactly as well as I could before (which is to say, not very well).
It just requires less clicking.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
#63 - 2013-05-10 00:59:28 UTC
I honestly don't mind that much. I was a combat-grade prober (with the player skills, bonused covops, sisters probes, and SP to back it up) but I never really enjoyed scanning all that much. I'd like to see it made a little more engaged than the current plan seems to be, but I'm not bothered that probing is more convenient now.
Linna Excel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-05-10 01:10:04 UTC
Obviously the scanning and exploration systems needed a command line interface that only responds to Japanese.

I can has blogging skills!
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#65 - 2013-05-10 01:12:34 UTC
The changes remove any sort of variety when it comes to scanning. It's now 7 probes in 2 preset formations, with almost no thought process needed. In the end the new scanning makes it more streamlined for newbie(or terrible) probers, while kicking any veteran or skilled prober in the nuts.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#66 - 2013-05-10 01:16:41 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
The changes remove any sort of variety when it comes to scanning. It's now 7 probes in 2 preset formations, with almost no thought process needed. In the end the new scanning makes it more streamlined for newbie(or terrible) probers, while kicking any veteran or skilled prober in the nuts.



Pretty much. My comment in the other thread was that they saw that some people understandably needed some help learning to ride a bike. Their solution was to take everyone's bike and permanently weld training wheels on.
Incindir Mauser
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-05-10 02:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Incindir Mauser
Linna Excel wrote:
Obviously the scanning and exploration systems needed a command line interface that only responds to Japanese.



Kanji, hiragana, or katakana?

And this is the keyboard you have to use to properly interface.

Ermagherd.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-05-10 02:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Domanique Altares wrote:
Pretty much. My comment in the other thread was that they saw that some people understandably needed some help learning to ride a bike. Their solution was to take everyone's bike and permanently weld training wheels on.

How is removing parts of an activity which are massively tedious and in no way enrich the experience analogous to adding training wheels to people's bikes?

An even better analogy would be if bikes somehow required you to solve a randomly scrambled Rubik's cube for every 500 meters distance you've biked otherwise they'd stop in their tracks, and the bike maker decides to remove this because it's an unnecessarily stupid feature.

I mean, let's go through the process here of scanning down an anomaly with 8 probes, okay?
Launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, drag all probes to one spot, pull probe 2 out into formation, pull probe 3 out into formation, pull probe 4 out into formation, pull probe 5 out into formation, pull probe 6 out into formation, pull probe 7 out into formation, pull probe 8 out into formation, scan, move probe formation, reduce scan range, pull probes 2-8 inward, move probe formation, scan, etc.

The process now?
Launch probes, move probe formation, scan, reduce scan range, move probe formation, scan, etc.
It doesn't require any less skill than it did before. All they did was get rid of the stupid parts that waste everybody's time and make probing completely unattractive to the vast majority of players.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#69 - 2013-05-10 03:02:05 UTC
The greatest struggle in this game is NOT player versus player, but player relying on other player to not know one little mechanic thing or button whatever so they can lose.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rayzilla Zaraki
Yin Jian Enterprises
#70 - 2013-05-10 03:28:37 UTC
Advanced technology that can travel ridiculously vast distances in practically the blink of an eye and weapons that can blow them out of the void...

Yeah...having all these presets for probing is unlikely with the current technology.

Gate campers are just Carebears with anger issues.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#71 - 2013-05-10 03:34:19 UTC
Here we go again. Less tedious doesn't mean "dumb."
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-05-10 03:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
NARDAC wrote:

It used to take some skill to become a fast prober.


No it used to take a hack to become a fast prober. Good riddance to old tedious probing for those that didn't cheat. Great change CCP.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
#73 - 2013-05-10 04:46:49 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
I haven't tested it personally, but from what you describe it seems they've listened to the complaints and implemented appropriate improvements. It seems very similar to the old system except without all the pointless tedium. The only real change seem to be the removal of deep space probes, but the function seems to be included in the scanner, so no real loss there either.



wait... what?? deep space probes are removed from the game? i sure hope the replacement provides all the intel that a deep space probe provided.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#74 - 2013-05-10 05:15:31 UTC
Kitanga wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
I haven't tested it personally, but from what you describe it seems they've listened to the complaints and implemented appropriate improvements. It seems very similar to the old system except without all the pointless tedium. The only real change seem to be the removal of deep space probes, but the function seems to be included in the scanner, so no real loss there either.



wait... what?? deep space probes are removed from the game? i sure hope the replacement provides all the intel that a deep space probe provided.

DSP were pretty much exclusively used to find the relative signal strengths of cosmic sigs, right?
The discovery scanner gives you this information. The only problem is that it's not incorporated into an easily accessible list, it's now spread out in separate points in space so you have to pan your camera around to find all of them.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-05-10 05:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Probing used to require skill.
Now you just hit launch, scan, wait for results...

It's dumbed down WAY too much.

Sentamon wrote:
NARDAC wrote:
It used to take some skill to become a fast prober.

No it used to take a hack to become a fast prober. Good riddance to old tedious probing for those that didn't cheat. Great change CCP.

no..it really didnt need a 'hack'.
it wasnt hard to be a fast prober, you did need to learn how to do it though.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#76 - 2013-05-10 06:19:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

I mean, let's go through the process here of scanning down an anomaly with 8 probes, okay?
Launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, launch probe, drag all probes to one spot, pull probe 2 out into formation, pull probe 3 out into formation, pull probe 4 out into formation, pull probe 5 out into formation, pull probe 6 out into formation, pull probe 7 out into formation, pull probe 8 out into formation, scan, move probe formation, reduce scan range, pull probes 2-8 inward, move probe formation, scan, etc.


Wow, so you kind of understand how to do it. This is good.

Now, how about you take us through the process of banding your results with a DSP to decide what you want to scan and what you don't?

Wait, you can't, because there's no DSP.

Since we can't do that, how about you take us through the process of launching one DSP and keeping it idle to check the whole system for new spawns, while you use the other seven probes to scan?

Wait, you can't, since there's no DSP, and no 8th probe.

Well, then lastly, perhaps you'd like to take us through the 'tedious' yet time-saving process of using two four-probe constellations to scan down more than one signature at a time?

Wait, you can't. Because yet again, there's no 8th probe anymore.

You also can't do these these because it's obvious that you don't know a damn thing about them.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#77 - 2013-05-10 06:25:06 UTC
Incindir Mauser wrote:

1) Abloo
2) bloo bloo
3) bloo bloo bloo
4) bloo bloo bloo bloo


Now that scanning doesn't take the dedication of both ADD and Aspegers syndrome to do.

No, but it sounds like you have both.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#78 - 2013-05-10 06:29:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I've done quite a bit of probing on the test server since this was introduced there.
I can probe exactly as well as I could before (which is to say, not very well).
It just requires less clicking.


Oh, hey. I missed this admission of not being able to probe well.

Anyway. I, too, find the new system with the presets easier and less time consuming. If I want to scan with a 7 probe constellation, it's super quick and easy now. And I have no issue with it being super quick and easy for others, either.

What I have an issue with is CCP removing advanced, functional methods that could easily have been left in the game to be used in tandem with the new, easier scan probe method.

Folks like you may never have wanted to train into an 8th probe or use a DSP, or scan down two things at once. And that's fine. This update is for you.

But what is the method behind the madness of gutting that functionality for everyone else that used it? It is, quite literally, forcing everyone to use the training wheels, regardless of their skill level.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-05-10 07:23:20 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I've done quite a bit of probing on the test server since this was introduced there.
I can probe exactly as well as I could before (which is to say, not very well).
It just requires less clicking.


Oh, hey. I missed this admission of not being able to probe well.

Anyway. I, too, find the new system with the presets easier and less time consuming. If I want to scan with a 7 probe constellation, it's super quick and easy now. And I have no issue with it being super quick and easy for others, either.

What I have an issue with is CCP removing advanced, functional methods that could easily have been left in the game to be used in tandem with the new, easier scan probe method.

That is a perfectly legitimate complaint, and I happen to agree with you there.
This one issue could be solved by allowing you to launch probes one by one, as before, simply by activating the launcher.
Launching seven probes at once should really only be done by the scanning window, not as the default behavior on activating the launcher.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-05-10 07:33:57 UTC
i got really good at navigating some awfully implemented solar system map why is ccp nerfing skill ((

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar