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Please don't remove Deep Space Probes! - DEV Response requested
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Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#41 - 2013-05-10 13:16:25 UTC
bump and another testemonial on the awesomeness of DSP's from my personal favorite pvp pro

"You won't need them for plex probing, but they are extremely useful in combat probing. You can drop one at 256 AU and tell in 6 seconds how many ships are in space, and get a general idea of ship class too. The new system has no way of reproducing this without scattering combat probes all over system, and even then they have a lot more deviation in scan size dependent on distance from the center of the probe."
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#42 - 2013-05-10 13:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gweny Gnosyn
I hope a Dev responds to this. This atrocity would be a lot easier to swallow with at least a decent explanation. It would be insulting to be ignored (my apologies if you responded somewhere else).

+1 - I trained DSP's to take advantage of all the above clever ideas and creative uses (You know, the things that make the game great) and now my reward for all that training is, "There, there, see . . . you don't need them anymore, we made it easier."

If new players are too lazy to learn to scan there are a million and one other fun things for them to do in the game, and later when they get curious they'll pick it up.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#43 - 2013-05-10 13:22:17 UTC
A dev response is somewhat justified/needed.

This is a threadnaught brewing once the rest of the player base catches wind.. We don't like stealth nerfs.
Anabaric
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#44 - 2013-05-10 13:43:26 UTC
Shocked Stealth nerf detected.

GIVE BACK!!

Seriously, these are vital for combat probing.

Community Manager www.Battleclinic.com @battleclinic Loadouts + Killboards + Forums Twitter @anabaric_eve www.the-bastards.net Recruitment: OPEN
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#45 - 2013-05-10 13:48:25 UTC
And yet another good point raised by someone:

DSP's can be used to track people down at system deep safes. Doing the same w/ combat probes is much more time consuming and difficult.
FuzzyButt
The Lazy Crabs
#46 - 2013-05-10 14:00:08 UTC
Ohnoes my farmin Pwobes O__o
Onomerous
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#47 - 2013-05-10 14:01:54 UTC
+1 for this idea
Lukas Rox
Aideron Technologies
#48 - 2013-05-10 14:02:12 UTC
+1 while I don't do that anymore, I used to use DSP to probe for marauder and battleships in mission hubs. It was damn useful to have DSPs back then.

Proud developer of LMeve: Industry Contribution and Mass Production Tracker: https://github.com/roxlukas/lmeve | Blogging about EVE on http://pozniak.pl/wp/
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#49 - 2013-05-10 14:20:04 UTC
By the way does anyone know if anything is coming as a replacement? Or if Astrometrics 5 will at least become a prereq to some other new fancy scanning tool?

I'd feel quite the fool if they were intending to replace DSP's with some T2 probe that served the same/similar purpose.
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#50 - 2013-05-10 14:40:22 UTC
Gweny Gnosyn wrote:
By the way does anyone know if anything is coming as a replacement? Or if Astrometrics 5 will at least become a prereq to some other new fancy scanning tool?

I'd feel quite the fool if they were intending to replace DSP's with some T2 probe that served the same/similar purpose.


There is no replacement. They are being removed and converted to core scanner probes. there will be no equivalent low-accuracy but high range probe.

The reasons for the removal are unclear. The general sentiment is that it's unecessary, and an arbitrary change because CCP is under the impression that 'they are not used for anything' ..

This is why we're asking for dev comment. Understanding at least the *reason* for the removal of DSP's would help.
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#51 - 2013-05-10 14:51:18 UTC
Well that would just be a damn shame, but ok, I can resume protesting:

RABBLE, RABBLE, RABBLE!
Zircon Dasher
#52 - 2013-05-10 14:54:27 UTC
I support the removal precisely because of the reasons listed in this thread.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#53 - 2013-05-10 15:02:45 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
I support the removal precisely because of the reasons listed in this thread.



Ha ha, so to be clear you support their removal because they are a useful tool for both exploration and PVP? Could you be more specific, maybe provide an example of how it might improve the game to make these tasks more difficult?
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#54 - 2013-05-10 15:10:41 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
I support the removal precisely because of the reasons listed in this thread.


I smell a highsec scrubloard who wants his little corner of 'safe space' where he can run and hide and be a carebear all day Roll
Zircon Dasher
#55 - 2013-05-10 15:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Zircon Dasher
Chandaris wrote:
I smell a highsec scrubloard who wants his little corner of 'safe space' where he can run and hide and be a carebear all day Roll


Under no circumstances was a DSP ever deployed to keep carebears "safe" OR to play farmville amiright?

Intel (for anyone) should be valuable and require effort. Currently that is not the case with DSP and would have been less so after the other changes. It is not that DSP are unnecessary-- it is that they are already very powerful and would become even more powerful with the addition of new mods and skill changes.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Vaihto Ehto
#56 - 2013-05-10 15:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaihto Ehto
Chandaris wrote:


- The Swift and Bitter Deep Space Probe Exploration Guide has helped plex runners speed up the rate at which they can identify and scan down the plexes they want to run for a long time now. this is a common tool used by many people to waste less time scanning down sites and increase their overall isk/hr. Link: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/dsp/


This is in my opinion the strongest argument for removing the DSPs.

Edit: Maybe allow them to only pick ship signatures?

Why would you not use an alt to post on the forums?
Loko Morice
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-05-10 15:29:17 UTC
Use these quite often for both scouting in PvP as well as exploration.
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#58 - 2013-05-10 15:32:41 UTC
Now, now, no need for name calling. Carebears are an important part of the ecosystem. Predators need prey :)
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2013-05-10 15:40:26 UTC
i want dsp remain in game AttentionAttentionAttentionAttentionAttention
Gweny Gnosyn
World Conquerors
#60 - 2013-05-10 15:43:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gweny Gnosyn
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Chandaris wrote:
I smell a highsec scrubloard who wants his little corner of 'safe space' where he can run and hide and be a carebear all day Roll


Under no circumstances was a DSP ever deployed to keep carebears "safe" OR to play farmville amiright?

Intel (for anyone) should be valuable and require effort. Currently that is not the case with DSP and would have been less so after the other changes. It is not that DSP are unnecessary-- it is that they are already very powerful and would become even more powerful with the addition of new mods and skill changes.



That's a reasonable point, but I contest. You do have to work for the information do you not? Also they're useful for helping stay safe. As one poster pointed out they use them to monitor for changes in the system so they have advance warning and can get out.

I agree they are a potent information gathering tool, just like strat cruisers are a potent PVP tool, I don't see it degrading the game in any way.

As for the DSP Guide there is a far easier fix than dropping them. Just add inherent variation to complex signatures, problem solved and DSP's can still be used for WH exploration and other creative things.