Market Discussions

We can but hope.

did you really just say "doubling"?

you seem to forget, that....

you can research more than one BPO at the same time in a POS at same pos costs
POS'es arent the only instruments to research/copy BPO´s (stations)
biggest portion of BPO value comes by their NPC cost, not by their research level
many POSes are placed for other purposes than reasearching but still have research jobs running (those ppl naturally dont care a lot about margins)

For many large scale producers, including myself, fuel is a minor cost compared to PLEX.

This should really not be the main topic of discussion..

What should be is when will ccp fix the now even greater problem with npc research slots and their prices..

You can get 1 isk / hour ME research slots from npc.. How can p2p POS running operations ever compete with that?

Sure its a motivator to lure people into low sec to use these, but the difference is way to great, and the queue mechanics instead of a dynamic price development is a HUGE flaw to game mechanics..

It should ALWAYS be more valid to use a POS, over an npc service.

My wish is that ccp links all npc slots into a public access rental system. Where its always a player owned POS slot we see in all stations. The rent is set by players and you can sort by price and select the cheapest, but under the hood that is a player recieving that isk..

The problem with jobs that cant complete because of a POS take down should be considered part of the renters risk. Since he should have the option of seeing what corp he is renting from prior to starting the job. It should only be visible in the list if the issuer have good standing towards the client, if not it shows as anonymous.

This would be a suggestion on how to fix and add better slot functions. Some further tweaking and features would be needed.

The point is npc slots is a 10 year old problem that have never been properly fixed.

yea, I didnt say anything else. But this still doesnt mean you can sell your BPC`s or BPO`s for the doubled price. supply and demand is what matters , buildcost marks just an absolute limit

you nailed it, static source of researched BPOs/copys that does NOT care about fuel cost at all.

I said the BPO value(price), not profit. at least for BPO´s. but a Raven BPO won´t be worth 3,2 bils just because it now costs 20 mil more to research it.

mate, we arent talking about any proof here, as you certainly cant proof that moon harvesters care about blueprint profits...its like asking for a proof for a weather forecast
"care about profit" does not mean they gona make a fuzz about some side-profit. They can, sure; but they just don`t have to.
I dont think they are the major factor,no; but they are a factor. Maybe you're also underestimating a bit the number of ppl having the BPO researching running as side line. high sec builders, inventers, garage-POSes, moon harversters etc... it´s not nothing.

Those people generally don't sell many blueprints though, so they have a very small impact on market price compared to someone who runs a large copy farm. You can have hundreds of people occasionally dropping the odd BP on the market and it doesn't amount to much on a daily basis. The side-liners make their difference to the market by consuming their own product, rather than buying it in. Compare that to a producer that keeps up a constant market presence with many hundreds of simulatenous BPs on conctracts and on the forums.

so I got the gist of the arguments here but it doesn't change the fact that higher fuel costs will almost certainly have an impact on researched print costs.

What I'm finding it difficult to get a handle on is how much of an impact.

In the end it'll all be decided by demand and supply and personal choices. A well managed, well chosen POS allows for flexibility at pricing, expecially when producing a revenue of 30-40M per lab slot. So in the end it comes down to simple points like: "today people buy my Retriever BPC for 10M, let's see how price will settle later". It's possible that many factors would cap (or not) price at 10M no matter the POS maintenace costs.

It's also possible to meet hard-rock minded people who will impose their own, thought out of the blues price.

I.e. one of my 3 competitors (2 of which, along with me, sort of command the highly researched BPCs for a number of BPCs markets) ALWAYS sells his BPCs for 3.5M. Every other BPC could sell at 5M including ME 25 ones, but he'll dump his ME 300 BPCs at 3.5M anyway, every day, without any variation or adaptation.
I, on the other side, test the waters and one week I might sell a ME 300 BPC for 3.2M and the next week for 7M because of a shift in demand.
Come the patch, that 3.5M guy will start earning less than today, while I'll raise my prices to keep up with the increased costs.

I think this is an excellent solution.

You will need input (datacores, RDBs etc) and output (BPCs) to be taken and delivered from the station hangar for this. I think that change should be applied to the way private research is handled too. Having output magically delivered to station rather than to the POS array itself would be a good useability improvement. The less time I have to spend hunting through hundreds of labs to gather all my BPCs the better.


Yes, this risk would have to remain in order to prevent "public" slots from being strictly better than "private" ones.

Would you be happy to see that change applied to all POS slots (i.e. manufacturing as well)? I would, but applying that buff to manufacturing slots is a massive buff compared to applying it to just research slots.

This idea has my attention.

Can some concerned person spell out the implications for me?