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Put an end to the exploitation and scamming against new players... Grow your customer base

First post
Author
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-05-09 17:26:21 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.


Speaking as one of apparently many dimwits who seem to inhabit your world, you have not really demonstrated an real knowledge of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth. Consider for one thing that you are currently attempting to converse with fellow consumers of a service/game/product. How has the application of your model worked out? Instead of considering the incredibly remote possibility that some of your core assumptions might be just a titch off, you are ignoring data and employing ad hominem attacks to preserve the mismatch between the actual phenomena, including your own actions, and your espoused model. Of course this is not uncommon. It also can produce a great deal of cognitive and emotional dissonance for you, expressed in your case it seems as anger. To be fair, you tried to start with bargaining in order to maintain your own world view, in the face of contradictory information. Depression is likely next if you actually progress toward something remotely resembling learning.

What is more likely is that you will quit and continue to insist that entire groups of people and institutions, categorized by your current model, are wrong... Probably even bad and wrong. One of the reasons I suggested contacting your scammer and thanking them is that you might discover who they are and why they are doing what they are doing does not fit all the negative attributions you have made about 'them' in this thread in an effort to keep your world view in tact. Currently you have no way of testing your model.

You seem to think that all of us dimwits are enemies of some sort, when in fact, people have been suggesting to you ways in which you might be able to participate in and enjoy the game. One of the things this means is that in the little slice of the EVErse represented in this thread you have actually only encountered the patient, mostly kind, players (though most will publicly deny it and may even call me names for saying so). What?

Private sig. Do not read.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#62 - 2013-05-09 17:29:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


Highsec is not safe, it is merely safer than anywhere else in the Eve universe. A dev said recently that the ability for someone to ruin another person's day is a cornerstone of Eve, and will remain so, highsec is not exempt from that cornerstone, nor should it be.

What you are asking for is a fundamental design change in the game, which isn't going to happen. The day that CCP remove any one of scams, ganks, awoxing and everything else that people fall victims to from any part of Eve is the day that they start to lose the mainstream press coverage the aforementioned things generate. They'll also anger a large portion of the playerbase into the bargain, the players reaction to stupidity of that magnitude from CCP will make the bad press, riots in Jita, forum threadnoughts, the unsub numbers and everything else related to the Incarna fallout look like Paris in spring, it'll kill a unique game and they know it.

CCP aren't trying to be Blizzard or EA, they're a company that make niche games with very few restrictions on what the players can and cannot do, and they do it very well, even DUST514 will have the same sort of scams when the markets and trade windows become integrated completely with Eve, and that's a fairly mainstream game compared to Eve.

Eve is one of the more successful MMOs with pretty much constant subscriber growth since 2003, there's very few titles that are ten years old that are still growing without sequels, or that can boast of players that have been playing constantly since beta.

You should be aware that some of the posters that you labelled as dimwits are probably professionals in the fields of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth. You'll be amazed at the RL professions of Eve players, I know of at least one player who is the CEO of a household name multinational, and another who is a real life space scientist, he did a very interesting presentation at fanfest covering FLT, space elevators and other esoteric subjects, hardly dimwits.

TL;DR, your idea is bad and you should feel bad, please stop trying to water Eve down until it becomes just another MMO.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Untanas Volmyr
Perkone
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-05-09 17:54:41 UTC
Why not have a seller and buyer rating option. Make it a hi-sec only feature. That won't solve the problem. Yet it may help somewhat.

Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.

Ekhss Nihilo
The Night Watchmen
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2013-05-09 17:57:00 UTC
Sakura Nihil wrote:
Might as well learn early.

And relatively cheap.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius (AD 121-180)

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-05-09 17:57:44 UTC
Untanas Volmyr wrote:
Why not have a seller and buyer rating option. Make it a hi-sec only feature. That won't solve the problem. Yet it may help somewhat.


Yeah. People with lots of accounts or a good corp/alliance can't manipulate that system....ooh wait.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Barlkin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-05-09 17:58:50 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


lol this guy just made my day. craptacular day at work and this is perfect. Thank you OP, your tears and terrible ideas have improved my mood.

ps. Ive been scamed, contract scam, sucked, i was pissed. Grow a pair and move on.

Under new management

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#67 - 2013-05-09 18:04:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Barlkin wrote:

PS. I've been scammed, contract scammed, sucked, I was pissed. Grow a pair and move on.

Same here, you learn from it and move on.

No margin trading scam? You should rectify that immediately, it's an object lesson in how an unregulated marketplace can be abused given a little creativity. I'm sure someone will contact you shortly Pirate

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mike Mulder
Imperial Phoenix Legion
#68 - 2013-05-09 18:10:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Mulder
Not sure if serious. Navy Augorors were selling for about 55M ISK in my neighborhood on the market. Why would you buy one on a private contract for 6x that price?

Edit: You're offering a lot incentives for people to use your buddy invite. You must not be all that space poor, and should feel extra bad for complaining about being scammed out of 300M in the event this thread isn't just trolling.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-05-09 18:14:49 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


This is another bad idea. Station trades are a necessary tool for corp/alliance members and multi-boxers.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#70 - 2013-05-09 18:15:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


I can't help but find people like you disgusting. You clearly don't have a clue about sandbox mmo-rpg games, and instead of learning, you cry.

The Tears Must Flow

Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-05-09 18:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
Valerian Dardanides wrote:
A suggestion to CCP, not to the many dimwits on this forum with no notion of consumer psychology, customer service, or financial growth: There is a solution that would protect new players without abolishing scams altogether.

Ban trade scam schemes in high-sec so normal players who want to play like decent human beings can do so and new players can learn in a safe environment.This makes sense from a roleplaying perspective because empire space shouldn't be like the Wild West. If concord and empire police summarily blow you up for looting an "owned" wreck in space... Then surely they wouldn't be soft handed with scammers hustling millions. To balance that, increase the sales tax in empire space to reflect the costs of implementing increased security.

For those who want to play as jerks, or who want to experience the full I-like-to-be-screwed experience... There is null sec. Zero tax, no rules.


How rude...

Since you do not want to listen to anybody why go directly to CCP? Concord and Faction police does not blow you up for stealing.

The fact that you are so ignorant about everything speaks volumes about how little you know about anything eve.

See you soon.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Untanas Volmyr
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-05-09 19:08:09 UTC
Don't buy a new car with a credit card. Don't mortgage your house for a yacht. Don't trust the bank. And don't just buy anything in eve. All kind of falls into the common sense category I guess doesn't it. I was once told by a magistrate clerk. " your ignorance to the law is no excuse for breaking it. Its common sense".

Murphy's Technology Law - If your not thoroughly confused. Then you were not thoroughly informed.

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#73 - 2013-05-09 19:14:25 UTC
I will double any amount of isk you send me and send it back. Triple for any amount over one billion.



Really there are 3 rules for buying crap from the local channel

#1 Don't do that
#2 If you're going to do it check it closely
#3 After you check it and it looks good see rule #1
Vega Makutu
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-05-09 21:56:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Vega Makutu
If you got scammed, that sucks! Sorry for your loss.

But hey, 320mil for a ship is a lot for a newer player. (Yes, I am aware that you didn't get the ship you thought you were buying) What are you going to do when you inevitably lose that ship?

Because you *will* lose it. If you can't or aren't willing to afford that loss, don't buy that ship.

Accept that you didn't pay attention, resolve to do better next time, and move on.

Or, if you are so inclined, spend your game time in rookie chat and warn all the new players about this sort of activity. Don't demand that the developers of a SANDBOX game put more rules and restrictions in game to "save newbies from being scammed".
Merouk Baas
#75 - 2013-05-09 21:58:33 UTC
In addition, CCP has implemented a number of changes to make some of these scams at least capable of being spotted, over the past couple years. You posted without any knowledge about how things were in the past (pretty bad), and you're suggesting that they change things to make scams easier to spot. They've already done what you're asking; they've implemented as much as they wanted to implement.

You're giving CCP some financial growth advice, lol. I think you've just insulted their CFO, as well as their PHD economist that they hired a few years ago to oversee things.

Finally, do you know what CCP stands for?
Lady von Baroness
Mizara's Dollhouse
#76 - 2013-05-09 22:02:45 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
I will double any amount of isk you send me and send it back. Triple for any amount over one billion.


I am envious of you... I can only afford to offer a 35% increase of any ISK that is sent to me. I am not space-rich enough yet :(

If someone could help me out and send me 1 billion ISK, I promise I will put it to use scamming, trading, and cheating, and I will return their ISK in full in 30 days, with an additional 500 million ISK as thanks!

Donations of any doll items are graciously accepted anywhere in the universe of EvE!

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-05-09 22:10:18 UTC
Lady von Baroness wrote:
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
I will double any amount of isk you send me and send it back. Triple for any amount over one billion.


I am envious of you... I can only afford to offer a 35% increase of any ISK that is sent to me. I am not space-rich enough yet :(

If someone could help me out and send me 1 billion ISK, I promise I will put it to use scamming, trading, and cheating, and I will return their ISK in full in 30 days, with an additional 500 million ISK as thanks!


Both sound very legit.

OP, you might want to invest some ISK in them.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-05-10 00:25:03 UTC
how does anyone get scammed in this game? If you're in a market hub and reading local rather than just watching out for war targets, you're doing it wrong.
Finding a decent corp with a reputation to protect isn't difficult, CCP just made it even easier. They are who you ask questions of and request support from, not random gamers in local.

No one can threaten or steal your stuff from an NPC station. Only in sov null can you lose your stuff so easily, and corps in sov null wouldn't last long if they were in the habit.

I've had a CEO run off with the corp wallet and hangar, virtually all of which was his stuff anyway. Set me back, oh a week.

Every scam in Eve relies on an error in judgement on the victim's part. At the very least hit the help channel and ask there if something seems bogus. There are orders of magnitude more players that will honestly answer questions and warn against a shady deal, than are scammers.

Take it as a lesson learned- it's all internet stuff anyway. You'll quickly lose much more to a random gate camp then be back saying how THAT should be banned too. Stop reading Jita local and most of the problem is solved. Actually reading something before hitting accept, maybe asking in help channel- solves the rest.
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#79 - 2013-05-10 04:08:58 UTC
Scamming and exploiting new players is good for them. CCP pride themselves on the cesspool that is EVE Online, they even wrote a song called "HTFU".

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

dark heartt
#80 - 2013-05-10 05:09:01 UTC
Valerian Dardanides wrote:

I have already written you a petition with the name of the offender and the details of what happened. I want my isk back and please implement some system to prevent more of cases like this, whether an addition to the tutorial or moderators in local or some way for a player based flagging system against scammers, especially those targeting new players.


I just read the full OP's post (I had skimmed over it before), and this bold part worries me. I do not think that you will get very far in Eve with that entitled attitude. And yes it is entitlement. You seem to think that you are a special butterfly, and that despite the fact that many many players have been caught out like this, you should be the only one to get this reimbursed. You are bad, and I feel bad for posting in agreement with you before...