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Discovery Scanner = WH Instant intel?
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silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#21 - 2013-05-09 20:10:34 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
Marcus Druallis wrote:
But the difference with the discovery scanner is it seems that it can be used similar to the directional scanner to search for threats.You would be able to spam the scanner, and at the instant a new wh sig shows up, warp to safety, no?


And that it can be set to repeat also I believe. Seems like it's making everything too safe in wormholes.

I hope not. That would make me a sad puppy.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2013-05-09 21:03:53 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:

A) Implying anyone would be in a wormhole without probe launcher, or scouts in fleet, this is not going to change
B) So?
C) 5 seconds, and it's easy to do with just one screen. I agree if the Discovery scanner is automatic, it is easier.


Let me ask you in all the times you jumped into someone's wormhole and ended up killing them, what's the percentage of times that they had probes out already on dscan?


Some people being stupid and bad doesn't have anything to do with safety. I'm just saying that Discovery Scanner doesn't increase safety in wormholes, you can see new sigs (and ships, which is even better)with current mechanics when they spawn.

.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-05-09 22:05:04 UTC
Roime wrote:
As a side note, corp bookmarks made WH space safer and easier, and downtime sig name change made things a lot easier. Discovery Scanner is not significant compared to these.


LOL, yeah sure.

before corp bookmarks you at least had to make your own bookmarks often enough and you knew they were right, post-corp bookmarks you only need 1 person to make everyone's bookmarks, and oftentimes they are an idiot, or a troll.

i remember one time, i deleted the bookmarks home, and renamed others pointing to hostile holes as "home", boy did our returning haulers have fun with that.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-05-09 22:08:14 UTC
Roime wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:

A) Implying anyone would be in a wormhole without probe launcher, or scouts in fleet, this is not going to change
B) So?
C) 5 seconds, and it's easy to do with just one screen. I agree if the Discovery scanner is automatic, it is easier.


Let me ask you in all the times you jumped into someone's wormhole and ended up killing them, what's the percentage of times that they had probes out already on dscan?


Some people being stupid and bad doesn't have anything to do with safety. I'm just saying that Discovery Scanner doesn't increase safety in wormholes, you can see new sigs (and ships, which is even better)with current mechanics when they spawn.

But whats happeneing is the people whoa r estupid and bad no longer have to suffer for it as much, sicne part of the job they should have been doing themselves is now handled on auto-repeat by the game.

next thing you know, they wil have D-scan on auto-update with a big "GTFO" on screen anytime a new sig appears on scan.



This is one of the reasons im also against the new probing style, yes it was "needless" tedium, but that tedium meant only a "smart" (as in common sense) few did it, and the rest would have the consequences. im just saying, alot of CCP's changes cater to the impatient and incompetent crowds.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-05-09 22:23:35 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
i remember one time, i deleted the bookmarks home, and renamed others pointing to hostile holes as "home", boy did our returning haulers have fun with that.

I bet you had fun when your CEO kicked you out of corp also. :)
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-05-10 01:43:48 UTC
Roime wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:

A) Implying anyone would be in a wormhole without probe launcher, or scouts in fleet, this is not going to change
B) So?
C) 5 seconds, and it's easy to do with just one screen. I agree if the Discovery scanner is automatic, it is easier.


Let me ask you in all the times you jumped into someone's wormhole and ended up killing them, what's the percentage of times that they had probes out already on dscan?


Some people being stupid and bad doesn't have anything to do with safety. I'm just saying that Discovery Scanner doesn't increase safety in wormholes, you can see new sigs (and ships, which is even better)with current mechanics when they spawn.


It does though. It increases the safety for the stupid and bad players (myself included at times). It's the equivalent of giving everyone a DSP that autoscans without having to even fit a probe launcher or train any skills.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-05-10 01:50:51 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
i remember one time, i deleted the bookmarks home, and renamed others pointing to hostile holes as "home", boy did our returning haulers have fun with that.

I bet you had fun when your CEO kicked you out of corp also. :)

kicked? never been kicked out of anything. The CEO logged on like once in a never in that old alliance (and yeah i say alliance, had a alliane leader who insisted on de facto control voer everything down to individual corp level, needless to say after almost a year in there, i left with several directors and whatnot to make our own group).

but yeah, i wasnt kicked, they were kinda like "dafuq is wrong with you" though.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#28 - 2013-05-10 01:52:18 UTC
The new scanner will be a boon to rapid combat probe drops.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Marcus Druallis
Northstar Cabal
#29 - 2013-05-10 02:57:39 UTC
Roime wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:

A) Implying anyone would be in a wormhole without probe launcher, or scouts in fleet, this is not going to change
B) So?
C) 5 seconds, and it's easy to do with just one screen. I agree if the Discovery scanner is automatic, it is easier.


Let me ask you in all the times you jumped into someone's wormhole and ended up killing them, what's the percentage of times that they had probes out already on dscan?


Some people being stupid and bad doesn't have anything to do with safety. I'm just saying that Discovery Scanner doesn't increase safety in wormholes, you can see new sigs (and ships, which is even better)with current mechanics when they spawn.


So, being completely 100% honest here.

Every time you are in WH space running a site, you have probes out covering the entire expanse of the system and run a scan every ten seconds?

Be honest.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2013-05-10 05:48:26 UTC
Yep, a DSP outside dscan range.



.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-05-10 06:02:42 UTC
Roime wrote:
Yep, a DSP outside dscan range.


And how many of the people that you've killed have had that out as well (just asking you to estimate).
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-05-10 06:28:00 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
but yeah, i wasnt kicked, they were kinda like "dafuq is wrong with you" though.

lol
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#33 - 2013-05-10 06:30:22 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:
Yep, a DSP outside dscan range.


And how many of the people that you've killed have had that out as well (just asking you to estimate).


No idea, it's not visible on scan

.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-05-10 08:04:11 UTC
Roime wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:
Yep, a DSP outside dscan range.


And how many of the people that you've killed have had that out as well (just asking you to estimate).


No idea, it's not visible on scan



Just asking you to estimate man. How many people have you killed do you think had a DSP or full coverage on a system and were scanning every 10 seconds?

They see a new signature pop up and just ignore it?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#35 - 2013-05-10 08:16:34 UTC
Your estimate is as good as mine, mate

I know I've never been surprised when I've had probes out.

.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-05-10 09:11:48 UTC
Roime wrote:
Your estimate is as good as mine, mate

I know I've never been surprised when I've had probes out.


This is exactly my point. Now no one will be surprised since everyone will have the intel automatically. Is that what you want wormholes to be for everyone? Yourself and your targets?
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-05-10 09:18:30 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
This is exactly my point. Now no one will be surprised since everyone will have the intel automatically. Is that what you want wormholes to be for everyone? Yourself and your targets?


Confirming, you will never catch anyone in a WH with this new discovery scanner. Just like you never catch anyone ratting/mining in 0.0 with the local chat, right?
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2013-05-10 09:32:10 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
I just installed Singularity to test out the new Discovery Scanner and I had a few questions.

The Discovery Scanner shows signatures as well as anomalies. I was wondering if this was instant or if there is a delay from a new signature spawning and it appearing on the scanner.

If it is instant I think that would take a huge element of mystery out of wormholes. One of the biggest draws is that you never know who could be possibly watching you, even if you have all of your statics and incoming holes picketed, since there's a chance that someone can just open up into you. I think it would be a great idea if CCP put in a delay (an hour or so) from signatures appearing on the Discovery Scanner so people who are actively scanning with probes still have the advantage over those who are passively scanning with the Discovery Scanner.


You could introduce a delay relative to the position you are and the position the anomaly spawns depending on the speed of electromagnetic waves (lightspeed) they might emit.
So an anomaly spawning 1 AU from the Discovery Scanner would appear on a passive scan after 499 lightseconds (or after 8. something minutes)...since most anomalies spawn near planets a ship without probes would need to warp the the planets, conduct a scan and wait there for some minutes until results come dropping in. One could also just hit the scan and wait but with systme sizes above 70-80 AU it would take quite a time....
This would lead to a gameplay full of surprises :-)
Using scan probes (which communicate via FTL Com with the "Scanning ship") would have a REAL benefit as there would be no time delay.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#39 - 2013-05-10 09:50:42 UTC
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:
Your estimate is as good as mine, mate

I know I've never been surprised when I've had probes out.


This is exactly my point. Now no one will be surprised since everyone will have the intel automatically. Is that what you want wormholes to be for everyone? Yourself and your targets?


No, I don't think anything in the whole scanning system should be changed in anyway, except redesign of dscan interface.

All I'm saying that equal level of real safety is already available to everyone, using current mechanics -> Discovery Scanner does not increase safety, it makes keeping your butt safe easier.



.
Van Kuzco
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-05-10 10:05:42 UTC
Roime wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
Roime wrote:
Your estimate is as good as mine, mate

I know I've never been surprised when I've had probes out.


This is exactly my point. Now no one will be surprised since everyone will have the intel automatically. Is that what you want wormholes to be for everyone? Yourself and your targets?


No, I don't think anything in the whole scanning system should be changed in anyway, except redesign of dscan interface.

All I'm saying that equal level of real safety is already available to everyone, using current mechanics -> Discovery Scanner does not increase safety, it makes keeping your butt safe easier.


Alright it seems that we were just arguing over semantics. You are right that perfect safety in wormholes does not change, as the discovery scanner just takes over for a highly skilled alt mashing analyze.

Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Van Kuzco wrote:
This is exactly my point. Now no one will be surprised since everyone will have the intel automatically. Is that what you want wormholes to be for everyone? Yourself and your targets?


Confirming, you will never catch anyone in a WH with this new discovery scanner. Just like you never catch anyone ratting/mining in 0.0 with the local chat, right?


I didn't say that. But I doubt many people want wormholes to become as safe as null.
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