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Where are my new ships?

Author
Holland Kross
Olympus Trading Corp
#1 - 2011-10-19 12:39:48 UTC
For a space ships game, we haven't had a new combat ship since the introduction of the T3 ships.
What is going on CCP?
It is time to focus in our real avatars (the ships), who cares about walking in a station when you can be flying?.

Whish list:

we want new T3 frigs
new Tier 3 BC's with new T2 BC's
new Tier 4 BS's with a new T2 Command BS
and dont forget about at least 2 more carriers that can be flown in empire space. Dreads in empire?
and how about adding strip mining turrets to the orca, at least 4. it is an industrial ship after all.

T3 weapons, more T2 drones

we dont need rebalance of ships, what we need is more ships to counter specific kinds of attack.

Bring splash damage back (new T3 weapon?)

and there is no reason in hell why a frig can bump a carrier and not get pulverized when it hits the hull. we need COLLISION DAMAGE.


more to follow...

It is all Pixels in Cyberspace

Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#2 - 2011-10-19 12:43:23 UTC
we need rebalance of ships.

Fixed :)

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

General Trajan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-19 13:17:22 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:
we need rebalance of ships.


this!
Delucian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2011-10-19 13:18:40 UTC
+1 for the need for some ship additions.

I have only been playing a bit over a year and I am already wanting more options - I can only imagine how older players feel.

Quote:
and there is no reason in hell why a frig can bump a carrier and not get pulverized when it hits the hull. we need COLLISION DAMAGE.


The game mechanics changes needed for this would be massive. Not that I disagree with the reasoning, but I dont see this ever happening. Would far prefer programming time be put into your other suggestions.
Wacktopia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-10-19 13:21:09 UTC
Can't tell if trolling?

There are enough variations in ship type in game. The problem is some of them are unbalanced. New ships would be cool but the answer to imbalance is not to just keep bringing out better ships & modules. Doing so only tips the balance elsewhere without solving the problem.

Wack'

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Delucian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-10-19 13:21:17 UTC
General Trajan wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
we need rebalance of ships.


this!


Like?

There is reasoning behind the current ship/weapon make up that is race based. Problem is most people don't fit ships for their intended use and try to "make" them do things they were not ment for (ditto weapon systems).

Crosstrain races and weapon systems and these problems go away.
Phyress
Isumi Industries
#7 - 2011-10-19 14:09:09 UTC
Holland Kross wrote:
For a space ships game, we haven't had a new combat ship since the introduction of the T3 ships.
What is going on CCP?
It is time to focus in our real avatars (the ships), who cares about walking in a station when you can be flying?.

Wish list:

we want new T3 frigs
new Tier 3 BC's with new T2 BC's
new Tier 4 BS's with a new T2 Command BS
and dont forget about at least 2 more carriers that can be flown in empire space. Dreads in empire?
and how about adding strip mining turrets to the orca, at least 4. it is an industrial ship after all.

T3 weapons, more T2 drones

we dont need rebalance of ships, what we need is more ships to counter specific kinds of attack.

Bring splash damage back (new T3 weapon?)

and there is no reason in hell why a frig can bump a carrier and not get pulverized when it hits the hull. we need COLLISION DAMAGE.


more to follow...


Alright, let's see...
Second T3 frigs, wouldn't mind additional BCs/Bss as well.

Caps in empire? Only if they're 'pocket caps', such as the Orca is to the Rorq. Strip mining Orca? No. It's a support vessel, not a mining vessel.

T3 weapons: Not sure how these would even work. More drone variety would be interesting; what roles did you have in mind?

Splash damage: We already have splash damage weapons. They're called Bombs.

Collision damage: Jita 4-4 - well, any market hub/mission hub/fleet staging area ends in fire and steel. Not a good idea, in my opinion
Alice Saki
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#8 - 2011-10-19 14:10:48 UTC
I'm more pointing towards the less used ships cause there is a better one in the same 'class'

FREEZE! Drop the LIKES AND WALK AWAY! - Currenly rebuilding gaming machine, I will Return.

Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#9 - 2011-10-19 14:20:18 UTC
Tier 1 battlecruisers and destroyers need some love.

Seriously there are around 100 different ships in this game to fly, we don't need more, we need balance. If you want new ships to fly, crosstrain.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

Goose99
#10 - 2011-10-19 14:31:47 UTC
Holland Kross wrote:
For a space ships game, we haven't had a new combat ship since the introduction of the T3 ships.
What is going on CCP?
It is time to focus in our real avatars (the ships), who cares about walking in a station when you can be flying?.

Whish list:

we want new T3 frigs
new Tier 3 BC's with new T2 BC's
new Tier 4 BS's with a new T2 Command BS
and dont forget about at least 2 more carriers that can be flown in empire space. Dreads in empire?
and how about adding strip mining turrets to the orca, at least 4. it is an industrial ship after all.

T3 weapons, more T2 drones

we dont need rebalance of ships, what we need is more ships to counter specific kinds of attack.

Bring splash damage back (new T3 weapon?)

and there is no reason in hell why a frig can bump a carrier and not get pulverized when it hits the hull. we need COLLISION DAMAGE.


more to follow...


Because CCP got this uniquely genius... or uniquely stupid idea that all ship must fit into a specific niche before it is allowed to exist. It didn't occur to them that some niche may be bigger than others. 3/4 of the population is Caldari, and everyone and their mother flies the drake. Then there are the electronic attack frigs, whose niche is so unused that no one in their right mind flies them. They already do fine at what they do, it's just no one wants to do it. No amount of balancing will change this. We cannot have more of that's popular, market forces do not apply, because ship lineup has to be tightly controlled by some chump at CCP.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#11 - 2011-10-19 15:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starling
Delucian wrote:
General Trajan wrote:
Alice Saki wrote:
we need rebalance of ships.

this!

Like?

Well take the tier 1 and 2 battlecruisers. Except for the Gallente ships, the tier 1s are hardly ever used. Prophecy? Ferox? Cyclone? These ships need some love to make them a viable alternative for their tier 2 counterparts. With ISK so easily available the higher price hardly makes any difference.

Same for cruisers and frigates, which are even cheaper. The lower tiers lack slots, dps and fitting options to make them viable for basically anything. It's been months since I've last seen a Bellicose or Augoror. Ospreys are used for a month by miners before they jump into retrievers. And so on.

Imo balancing the tiers would bring far more options and variety into the game than adding more ships and keeping 50% of the available ships useless.
Delucian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2011-10-19 15:40:17 UTC
Quote:
Well take the tier 1 and 2 battlecruisers. Except for the Gallente ships, the tier 1s are hardly ever used. Prophecy? Ferox? Cyclone? These ships need some love to make them a viable alternative for their tier 2 counterparts. With ISK so easily available the higher price hardly makes any difference.

Same for cruisers and frigates, which are even cheaper. The lower tiers lack slots, dps and fitting options to make them viable for basically anything. It's been months since I've last seen a Bellicose or Augoror. Ospreys are used for a month by miners before they jump into retrievers. And so on.

Imo balancing the tiers would bring far more options and variety into the game than adding more ships and keeping 50% of the available ships useless.


Every race has (depending upon your use and view) one stellar T1 BC and one that is less than stellar. Typically, one is a heavy tank and the other a heavy DPS ship. Each has its use and all are very useful in their existing state.

Top - Harbinger, Drake, Myrmidon, Hurricane
Bottom - Prophecy, Ferox, Brutix, Cyclone

Again, each has its use.

Could we use some T2 or faction/pirate versions - yea, probably.

However, your next logical step is a Strategic Cruiser.

As for cruisers and frigs, the concept is that they are smaller ships and, thus lack slots because of their size/fitting limitations - this is basic mechanics (RL and Eve - typically with some radical exceptions that are taken care of in T2 ships).

There are, however, ships that probably just need to be replaced with something more useful (Bellicose, Augoror, etc...)
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#13 - 2011-10-19 16:04:22 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Holland Kross wrote:
For a space ships game, we haven't had a new combat ship since the introduction of the T3 ships.
What is going on CCP?
It is time to focus in our real avatars (the ships), who cares about walking in a station when you can be flying?.

Whish list:

we want new T3 frigs
new Tier 3 BC's with new T2 BC's
new Tier 4 BS's with a new T2 Command BS
and dont forget about at least 2 more carriers that can be flown in empire space. Dreads in empire?
and how about adding strip mining turrets to the orca, at least 4. it is an industrial ship after all.

T3 weapons, more T2 drones

we dont need rebalance of ships, what we need is more ships to counter specific kinds of attack.

Bring splash damage back (new T3 weapon?)

and there is no reason in hell why a frig can bump a carrier and not get pulverized when it hits the hull. we need COLLISION DAMAGE.


more to follow...


Because CCP got this uniquely genius... or uniquely stupid idea that all ship must fit into a specific niche before it is allowed to exist. It didn't occur to them that some niche may be bigger than others. 3/4 of the population is Caldari, and everyone and their mother flies the drake. Then there are the electronic attack frigs, whose niche is so unused that no one in their right mind flies them. They already do fine at what they do, it's just no one wants to do it. No amount of balancing will change this. We cannot have more of that's popular, market forces do not apply, because ship lineup has to be tightly controlled by some chump at CCP.




Comparing drakes to EAF's is like comparing apples to oranges...

what we mean is balancing across the races in the same catagory. Why is 3/4's of eve caldari? Because of the drake/tengu/raven for pve...


If all the races had a ship that performed as stellar for pve as the drake, then they would be balanced. Currently they are not.

Balance before new ships.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.

Delucian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-19 16:23:26 UTC
Quote:
If all the races had a ship that performed as stellar for pve as the drake, then they would be balanced. Currently they are not.


Again, arguably the Hurricane and Myrmidon are both fully PVE capable ships (although both require more management). The only exception (maybe) would be in some of the harder L4 missions.

I can't really argue the Harbinger, it probably does need a buff.

The Drake is what it is because it is easy mission in for newer players - ie, it is very forgiving. This does not make the other BC's incapable, you just have to have better skills and work a bit harder with them to do well.

While I am not a huge fan of the Myrm (I prefer the Vexor line of Drone ship), the Hurricane is stellar in both PVE and PVP.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-10-19 19:35:06 UTC
i can has hurricane hull command ship ? :3

I should buy an Ishtar.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#16 - 2011-10-19 20:25:36 UTC
Delucian wrote:
Quote:
Well take the tier 1 and 2 battlecruisers. Except for the Gallente ships, the tier 1s are hardly ever used. Prophecy? Ferox? Cyclone? These ships need some love to make them a viable alternative for their tier 2 counterparts. With ISK so easily available the higher price hardly makes any difference.

Same for cruisers and frigates, which are even cheaper. The lower tiers lack slots, dps and fitting options to make them viable for basically anything. It's been months since I've last seen a Bellicose or Augoror. Ospreys are used for a month by miners before they jump into retrievers. And so on.

Imo balancing the tiers would bring far more options and variety into the game than adding more ships and keeping 50% of the available ships useless.


Every race has (depending upon your use and view) one stellar T1 BC and one that is less than stellar. Typically, one is a heavy tank and the other a heavy DPS ship. Each has its use and all are very useful in their existing state.

Top - Harbinger, Drake, Myrmidon, Hurricane
Bottom - Prophecy, Ferox, Brutix, Cyclone

Again, each has its use.

Well hardly. The Ferox doesn't even have a better tank than a Drake. The other tier 2 BCs have more slots so they can make up for defensive deficiencies. It's for a reason you hardly see any tier 1 BCs, the better tank (if at all) doesn't make up for the huge decrease in offensive power. Only if I see 50% Cyclones and 50% Hurricanes then yes, they both have their equal uses.
Delucian
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-10-19 20:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Delucian
Quote:
Well hardly. The Ferox doesn't even have a better tank than a Drake.


I did not state that it did. I said it typically had one or the other. Drake has super tanke and good DPS, and a Ferox can be fit for some major DPS.

Quote:
It's for a reason you hardly see any tier 1 BCs, the better tank (if at all) doesn't make up for the huge decrease in offensive power. Only if I see 50% Cyclones and 50% Hurricanes then yes, they both have their equal uses.


I am not sure where you are flying that you hardly ever see Tier 1 BC's. Surely none of the systems I am in.

As far as "Huge decrease in offensive power" goes, I have not run a L4 yet that I cannot do in my Drake. Yes, it is outpaced by my Tengu, as it should be. Yea, with excellent skills you can byppass a Drake with a BS - as it should be.

If you are anywhere in Eve that you are seeing 50% of any single ship class - I really cant imagine why it would ever be that way - unless it was a mission only area (which dont exist to my knowledge - although many think high sec is supposed to be that way).

Sorry, in practice, Tier 1 BC's are one of the best ship classes in the game for many reasons.

Edit: so I dont have the last word in this thread, I have bolded and underlined the key word for you (in order) in this portion of the post that highlights my point which you clearly dont understand.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-10-19 21:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Delucian wrote:
Sorry, in practice, Tier 1 BC's are one of the best ship classes in the game for many reasons.


Talk is cheap...

The "best" tier T1 BC's ship classes you, me, and the majority doesn't use (!) and this is a simple fact you simply choose to ignore because you decided you should have the last word vs every one else in this thread.

Starting to look like "wow" tiers: "I've got my full set T35 and I'm tired of it so what's next blizz? -gimme another one" Lol

Quote:
Edit: so I dont have the last word in this thread, I have bolded and underlined the key word for you (in order) in this portion of the post that highlights my point which you clearly dont understand.


Well seems you're the only guy around understanding that stuff.
Maybe you wanted to say "In theory" ? Lol
Because "in practice" tier 2 T1 Battlecruisers are far better than tier 1. Seems every one agrees on that one except yourself Lol
Terminator56
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-10-19 22:04:38 UTC
Inbalance keeps the game interesting, if every race's bc had the exact same stats what fun would the game be? Each race has its own way of fighting. Instead of complaining about stuff being overpowered why don't you find a counter for it? For example the drake is slow and doesn't do as much dps as other races, so you can outrun it. The shield cane is fast but has a weak tank, so you need to web it down, the armor cane is slow so you can kite it and stay out of its gun range. Both ammar and gallente rely on cap, neut them out and their guns are useless. And most of all if you think something is overpowered, why don't you just train for it and us it? Its not like battle cruisers are that skill intensive.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-10-19 22:38:57 UTC
Terminator56 wrote:
Inbalance keeps the game interesting, if every race's bc had the exact same stats what fun would the game be? Each race has its own way of fighting. Instead of complaining about stuff being overpowered why don't you find a counter for it? For example the drake is slow and doesn't do as much dps as other races, so you can outrun it. The shield cane is fast but has a weak tank, so you need to web it down, the armor cane is slow so you can kite it and stay out of its gun range. Both ammar and gallente rely on cap, neut them out and their guns are useless. And most of all if you think something is overpowered, why don't you just train for it and us it? Its not like battle cruisers are that skill intensive.



That's exactly what people do at the end, they train/use what is OP at the moment because they are like you, they want kill mails, not loss mails.

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