These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Odyssey Feedback Request] Team Super Friends - Probe Scanning and You

First post First post First post
Author
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#1181 - 2013-05-19 11:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Johan Toralen
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
[quote=Daniel Plain][quote=Roime]
Basically, as folks have already said, this change is crap - guys with tengus in hisec will now switch to cerbs, ishtars or maybe drakes (can they enter?) and carry on their marry way. However why is no one thinking of frecking lowsec? We're pretty much f****d since cloakie tech3s at least gave you the option of travelling around and, you know... exploring... and with covops fits dps is far below anything allowing for fast farming. With this change and tech3's out of way its back to mwd+cloak days of isthar I guess, but why this change was needed and what good it will bring is beyond me. If they are trying to force 'cooperative game-play' on people they are totally doing it the wrong way.


Good point. It's really just another badly thought through change. Would have been more reasonable to keep the sites as are but remove them from hisec and offset the income loss by redirecting the loot chances from hisec to the new low sec and null sec profession sites.

More 4/10's in low would also have been an idea but idk how to feel about that. In general i feel there isn't enough low sec in the game apart from the Blood Raiders regions to absorb an influx of many new explorers. Everywhere else it feels already more like inner city then wild west especialy with the numbers of players that we have these days.

Or how about a proper cloaky t2/faction cruiser for exploration? Something like Pilgrim but with enough dps and tank to do the 4/10, 5/10 and some bonuses to probing. Hell CCP took their time to design the Gnosis. It could have easily be that ship with some tweaks to the stats, proper cloak and bpc's spawned in the new profession sites. Would have fit Odyssey so perfectly.

I can think of so many things that would make low/null exploration more compelling. Why can't CCP for their exploration themed expansion?
Traiori
Going Critical
#1182 - 2013-05-19 14:00:47 UTC
Quote:
Or how about a proper cloaky t2/faction cruiser for exploration? Something like Pilgrim but with enough dps and tank to do the 4/10, 5/10 and some bonuses to probing


It's called a Legion. Or a Tengu if you prefer the Caldari version (which is admittedly superior for exploration in many ways).

They just stopped these ships from accessing these sites.
Boltorano
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#1183 - 2013-05-19 14:06:21 UTC
Easier solution to the T3 farming problem:

- Move all non-static 4/10s to lowsec.

This with the removal of the DSP would essentially end the Tengu scourge in highsec.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#1184 - 2013-05-19 14:25:42 UTC
Traiori wrote:
Quote:
Or how about a proper cloaky t2/faction cruiser for exploration? Something like Pilgrim but with enough dps and tank to do the 4/10, 5/10 and some bonuses to probing


It's called a Legion. Or a Tengu if you prefer the Caldari version (which is admittedly superior for exploration in many ways).

They just stopped these ships from accessing these sites.


I know. Hence i thought a t2/faction cruiser to replace this specific role would be good so the low sec explorers don't get the short stick from this change aimed at hisec farmers.
Warr Akini
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1185 - 2013-05-19 15:14:54 UTC
Automatic scanner is infinite range, manual scanner is not? Odd.
Jonas Staal
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1186 - 2013-05-19 15:51:47 UTC
DeLindsay wrote:

ROFL! If you can't solo a DeD 4 in a non-T3 ship then you should just gimme all ur stuff and quit Eve, your bad. I can solo a Highsec DeD 4 Like in Deltole (which is what they're referring to) in a damn AF, you can at least do it in a HaC/T1 BC.


It's easier to get into a T3 than getting into a HAC (skill wise), so I kind a wonder what the improvement is here.
Olari Vanderfall
Perkone
Caldari State
#1187 - 2013-05-19 15:53:52 UTC
Can we please have the ability to arrange our own probes?

The current system is so painful to rearrange the preformed arrangements.

Seems like some probes are linked to others so when you resize them by dragging it changes some but not others when you have 4 selected.

The fact that it does not update sphere sizes in the scanning window makes it all worthless.

I'm trying to get into the new system, but right now it's worse than what existed before.

Mnemosyne Gloob
#1188 - 2013-05-19 16:02:24 UTC
Cirillith wrote:
Hmm - don't know if someone already discovered that but it seems some changes were made on SISI in DED complexes and ship allowance list. HI-sec DED complexes (3/10 4/10) no longer allow T3 cruisers for example...

Quote:
Thank you for your bugreport titled: DED ship size problem

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.


Just info for all those DED fans :D


While i am literally giggling right now at the thought of hundreds of highsec tengus becoming useless, it's the wrong way to address whats going on in highsec exploration - because those pilots will soon discover the Cerberus, or similar boats.

Randomizing of signature strengths and/or looking at loot tables (why are the invulnerability fields, as active hardeners, dropping from 4-6/10 sites - it would have maybe been better to put them in 7-10/10 sites - but then again eanms are sort of their counterpart, so i dunno) would have been much better.

Removing 4/10 from highsec would also be an option.

If you restrict access to those sites, be even more strict and disallow also t2 ships and pirate/navy variants.


Tzu Wu
Origin.
#1189 - 2013-05-19 16:20:20 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Cirillith wrote:
Hmm - don't know if someone already discovered that but it seems some changes were made on SISI in DED complexes and ship allowance list. HI-sec DED complexes (3/10 4/10) no longer allow T3 cruisers for example...

Quote:
Thank you for your bugreport titled: DED ship size problem

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.


Just info for all those DED fans :D


While i am literally giggling right now at the thought of hundreds of highsec tengus becoming useless, it's the wrong way to address whats going on in highsec exploration - because those pilots will soon discover the Cerberus, or similar boats.

Randomizing of signature strengths and/or looking at loot tables (why are the invulnerability fields, as active hardeners, dropping from 4-6/10 sites - it would have maybe been better to put them in 7-10/10 sites - but then again eanms are sort of their counterpart, so i dunno) would have been much better.

Removing 4/10 from highsec would also be an option.

If you restrict access to those sites, be even more strict and disallow also t2 ships and pirate/navy variants.





And I am giggling at them effecting your precious lowsec with that nerf too.At least we have a common gripe.How can you allow one type of T2 cruiser and not another? Yes I know T3 are T3's but its still a cruiser size.To be technical the pirate cruisers are really just class 1 but sitll,probably should limit them too.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#1190 - 2013-05-19 16:38:54 UTC
Tzu Wu wrote:
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Cirillith wrote:
Hmm - don't know if someone already discovered that but it seems some changes were made on SISI in DED complexes and ship allowance list. HI-sec DED complexes (3/10 4/10) no longer allow T3 cruisers for example...

Quote:
Thank you for your bugreport titled: DED ship size problem

The problem you have described is an intended game feature or function, and not a bug.


Just info for all those DED fans :D


While i am literally giggling right now at the thought of hundreds of highsec tengus becoming useless, it's the wrong way to address whats going on in highsec exploration - because those pilots will soon discover the Cerberus, or similar boats.

Randomizing of signature strengths and/or looking at loot tables (why are the invulnerability fields, as active hardeners, dropping from 4-6/10 sites - it would have maybe been better to put them in 7-10/10 sites - but then again eanms are sort of their counterpart, so i dunno) would have been much better.

Removing 4/10 from highsec would also be an option.

If you restrict access to those sites, be even more strict and disallow also t2 ships and pirate/navy variants.





And I am giggling at them effecting your precious lowsec with that nerf too.At least we have a common gripe.How can you allow one type of T2 cruiser and not another? Yes I know T3 are T3's but its still a cruiser size.To be technical the pirate cruisers are really just class 1 but sitll,probably should limit them too.


None shall pass! Ok, maybe Ventures are ok, everything else too OP. :3
Sarmatiko
#1191 - 2013-05-19 17:00:28 UTC
Tzu Wu wrote:
And I am giggling at them effecting your precious lowsec with that nerf too.At least we have a common gripe.How can you allow one type of T2 cruiser and not another? Yes I know T3 are T3's but its still a cruiser size.To be technical the pirate cruisers are really just class 1 but sitll,probably should limit them too.

T2 cruisers don't have scan bonus, they have lesser tank and dps than T3. Also some of them have problems with exploration fittings (Zealot with 6 High\turret slots as example).
T2 allowed in exploration sites? It's ok, players now have the good reason to train for Heavy assault cruisers while waiting for proper rebalance.
It's not just current dumb "Train Tengu - the only ship you need in your lifetime to do everything better than anyone else". Let's see how painlessly current Tengu addicts will switch to Cerberus if ships are "just same" and "this will change nothing". Smile
Sarah Olson
Alpha United Industries Inc.
#1192 - 2013-05-19 17:51:46 UTC
Sylvia Nardieu wrote:
Sarah Olson wrote:

The Serpentis overseer in the 4/10 can be killed with far less dps than 600. I've done the site with a tech 2 fitted Retribution and killed the overseer with just over 200 dps without even hitting his weak resists. Its far from efficient but certainly doable and full room agro is no problem in an AF.

Well we must have met different overseers because the one I know would tank 200 dps of wrong damage type while picking his nose and laughing at you in most menacing manner. I've had that bugger rep tank 350 dps (cloaky) tengu shooting proper damage types and had to bring another guy into plex to kill it.


The Phi-Operation Protector, aka serp ded 4/10 overseer has a 75% chance to rep 1250 hp every 25 seconds. The equivalent of 50 hp a second. Even if his reps landed 100% of the time, with his 70% EM resists, 200 dps of pure EM is sufficient to break him, though it might take awhile. Since I had over 200 dps and also dealt thermal as well EM, killing him was no problem, just time consuming.
Boltorano
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#1193 - 2013-05-19 18:01:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Boltorano
I used to run Serp 4/10 in an Ishkur with Hob IIs and meta blasters. It took a short eternity but it was possible.

In a HAM Tengu, the plex takes as little as 5 minutes. Use thermal missiles on the overseer.
Alyssa Haginen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1194 - 2013-05-19 18:07:49 UTC
A way to set the probes ranges all at once other then shift clicking the first and last probe would be nice. Like a set range button you can right click and set all the ranges at once. Left click the button to set your probe range to default. The default range option could be in the right click menu. Thanks
Tzu Wu
Origin.
#1195 - 2013-05-19 20:00:02 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
Tzu Wu wrote:
And I am giggling at them effecting your precious lowsec with that nerf too.At least we have a common gripe.How can you allow one type of T2 cruiser and not another? Yes I know T3 are T3's but its still a cruiser size.To be technical the pirate cruisers are really just class 1 but sitll,probably should limit them too.

T2 cruisers don't have scan bonus, they have lesser tank and dps than T3. Also some of them have problems with exploration fittings (Zealot with 6 High\turret slots as example).
T2 allowed in exploration sites? It's ok, players now have the good reason to train for Heavy assault cruisers while waiting for proper rebalance.
It's not just current dumb "Train Tengu - the only ship you need in your lifetime to do everything better than anyone else". Let's see how painlessly current Tengu addicts will switch to Cerberus if ships are "just same" and "this will change nothing". Smile



With my implants I have 487 dps in a Cerberus with sisters core scanning probe.Only obstacle really is being limited to just an 10m afterburner with that dps.I wont really have a problem adapting with either that ship or a sentry Ishtar.I am assuming BC are still allowed? So maybe I'll test out a Sleipnir or Drake.
Sylvia Nardieu
Super Serious Fight Club
#1196 - 2013-05-19 20:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sylvia Nardieu
Sarmatiko wrote:
T2 cruisers don't have scan bonus, they have lesser tank and dps than T3. Also some of them have problems with exploration fittings (Zealot with 6 High\turret slots as example).
T2 allowed in exploration sites? It's ok, players now have the good reason to train for Heavy assault cruisers while waiting for proper rebalance.
It's not just current dumb "Train Tengu - the only ship you need in your lifetime to do everything better than anyone else". Let's see how painlessly current Tengu addicts will switch to Cerberus if ships are "just same" and "this will change nothing". Smile


Actually, if you're using covops and probing subsystems, cerb is doing more dps then tengu with very similar resists. Bit more buffer, thats it.
If you go for mwd+cloak trick on tengu (no cloaking subsystem) it will do more dps, but have almost same buffer (again, resits are pretty much the same). However, this way the likelihood of getting caught on a gate is slightly higher.
There are numerous scenarios we could consider, and while it is a fact that tengu will be better then cerb or any other tech 2 ship for this particular purpose, I can't but ask - isn't that the point of having a tech 3 cruiser? It's not like they come for free or don't require significant investment of time for skills.

Fact that Tengu is a ship of choice (among tech 3's) has mostly to do with the combination of mechanics which are not balanced per se (missiles against turrets for damage projection and dps, shield tanking flexibility in comparison to armour tanking, resistance profile suited for guristas which are the most profitable race out there for faction modules etc.).

I don't think you'll find too many people complaining about exploration tech 3's in lowsec or nullsec, and for a very simple reason - when someone notices you on d-scan, they'll get all their available corpmates and their mothers to pile on top of you in hope of either juicy kill or a good fight, so it's risky by design.
Just today me and two mates lost a 6/10 to a bigger gang. We fought em, kicked them out of plex, they reshipped and got more folks in, we couldn't get reinforcements to system in time and they completed it. They got nice loot, we got butthurt a bit, but that's life in low and we accept it for what it is. How is this not balanced, and where is the need for nerf there? I don't see any.

So you see, while I understand that there are some problems with exploration farming in hisec and rewards in general at the moment (guristas being a particularly problematic faction), this tech 3 nerf is not the way to solve it because it hits the hardest the people who had nothing to do with the problem to start with. It's kind of like treating bacterial infection using antipyretics - you're treating a symptom, not the disease. At the same time, there are much simpler solutions to farming problems which were not implemented (discussed earlier in this thread).

Also while talking of tech 3s, I find it hilarious that CCP saw a need to do this change and leave tech 3 combat boosting properties intact for Odyssey. Says a lot about prioritising issues wich are actually impacting gameplay I guess.
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#1197 - 2013-05-19 20:13:53 UTC
3/10 Complex wrote:

This acceleration gate is not configured to handle your Tengu.
It handles:
Frigate
Cruiser
Shuttle
Rookie ship
Assault Frigate
Heavy Assault Cruiser
Deep Space Transport
Destroyer
Interdictor
Covert Ops
Interceptor
Logistics
Force Recon Ship
Stealth Bomber
Electronic Attack Ship
Heavy Interdiction Cruiser
Combat Recon Ship
Industrial
Industrial Command Ship
Blockade Runner

This is ok in my eyes, but to disallow T3s into 4/10 which allow battlecruisers is crap.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Baycity Kitty
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1198 - 2013-05-19 20:45:49 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
But if you can get an orca in you can just put your T3 into the hangar and switch once you are in the site Shocked


Except I hear that the Orca won't allow any non-industrial ships to be put in its hanger now. So you can't move anything buy mining ships in an orca in odyssey
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#1199 - 2013-05-19 21:05:47 UTC
Baycity Kitty wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
But if you can get an orca in you can just put your T3 into the hangar and switch once you are in the site Shocked


Except I hear that the Orca won't allow any non-industrial ships to be put in its hanger now. So you can't move anything buy mining ships in an orca in odyssey


If true, it's probably the result of people screaming about all the 'useless' mining and indy skills they had to train prior to this point. Kind of like asking to be able to use 8 probes again results in being able to launch only 8 probes all at once, instead of 7 all at once. We get 8 probes, they get a reason to have mining skills if they want to use the Orca to its fullest.

Roll
Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
The Gurlstas Associates
#1200 - 2013-05-19 21:06:55 UTC
Baycity Kitty wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
But if you can get an orca in you can just put your T3 into the hangar and switch once you are in the site Shocked


Except I hear that the Orca won't allow any non-industrial ships to be put in its hanger now. So you can't move anything buy mining ships in an orca in odyssey

Confirmed this in not true.
http://i.imgur.com/rDZgLka.jpg

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.