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Details and update on the Ice Anomaly design

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Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2013-05-09 18:12:05 UTC
Wasse wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


We quit nullsec last year, this was one of the reasons, we was in one of the last independent alliances of scalding pass at the time, only 2 systems, no outpost.... I bet that now every alliance there is part of a block....
Now we are in Hi-sec, mostly running incursions. We have some WH Ops too...

And I don't think that you can understand how is to live in null without a huge alliance... It is Really HARD!!! more then WH...


So... join/ally with a bigger alliance?
Move to NPC null-sec?
Rent space?

You have a number of options open to you. You might not like them - but you have the options open to you.

I can understand people not liking coalitions, but only being big enough to have two systems, well, yeah. That's a bit small for non-npc 0.0.


But we indeed had allot of fun: http://evenews24.com/2012/03/19/disaster-strikes-for-fail-the-legion-drops-it-like-its-hot/

If we had more infra-structure like a revamped POS, the sov was a little different, some ways to get ice, we could still be there... and more small alliances could have their space, so more good PVP would be available.

But I'm Happy that the next expansion will be "Build Your empire" Themed... so we still have hope...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Kelmurdoch
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#102 - 2013-05-09 18:17:11 UTC
I for one am looking forward to the new ice mechanics. So much isk to be made. My objective will be to mine all the Glare Crust, Dark Glitter, Krystallos and Gelidus first, then focus on the isotope. The import w/e isotope I really want like I always have.

But I also think that both Rorqual compression cycle duration should be quartered, and POS refineries should be looked at with an eye toward increasing capacity or reducing cycle time.
Hustomte
Veritex Industrial Inc.
#103 - 2013-05-09 18:19:44 UTC
ComDS wrote:
... "Quotes" ...

LOL! I like you Com, but you said all those yourself in local
:i was there:

...Signature...
Wasse
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2013-05-09 18:32:14 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:


But we indeed had allot of fun: http://evenews24.com/2012/03/19/disaster-strikes-for-fail-the-legion-drops-it-like-its-hot/

If we had more infra-structure like a revamped POS, the sov was a little different, some ways to get ice, we could still be there... and more small alliances could have their space, so more good PVP would be available.

But I'm Happy that the next expansion will be "Build Your empire" Themed... so we still have hope...


Fun's good, however you have it. Even if it's at others expense :). Actually, it normally is, isn't it?

But here is what I don't get. Why does getting ice matter?

Before the increase in isotope prices, mining ice in high-sec gave you something like 6million isk/hour? (with good orca buffs). Even now, if my math is right (which it may not be), its 12mill/hour?

Why not do something better to make isk, and then simply buy/import the fuel? It goes to the whole terrible concept of "if I mine it its free". You do whatever you can to make isk - then buy what you need. It is often far more efficient then procuring exactly what you need. Especially in the case of fuel, as the price was kept artificially low with bots/afk miners.
ComDS
Eve Engineering Authority
Eve Engineering
#105 - 2013-05-09 18:35:18 UTC
Hustomte wrote:
ComDS wrote:
... "Quotes" ...

LOL! I like you Com, but you said all those yourself in local
:i was there:


Yes they were repeated in local, and several mails and several other channels. But you apparently was not in the channel they originated from. Curse me if you want but just letting the devs know a trend I am witnessing. I already am well aware of your option in the matter. We talked about it at length. Please stop trying to nail an option to me. I win both ways. I can debate it the other way if you want to really get confused.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2013-05-09 18:36:00 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:

If we had more infra-structure like a revamped POS, the sov was a little different, some ways to get ice, we could still be there... and more small alliances could have their space, so more good PVP would be available.

But I'm Happy that the next expansion will be "Build Your empire" Themed... so we still have hope...

Yeah, I'd be happy if smaller entities could get a bit of a foothold, null doesn't have much of an alliance incubator right now.
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#107 - 2013-05-09 18:44:42 UTC  |  Edited by: BEPOHNKA
Your set is bit off I for one would like update on "rare" low sec ice. Their are some low sec systems which have Dark Glitter sir. Number two which I have a problem with is null sec should have a bit more outcome. extra 3500 and 4000. It's null sec should always get a bit more.

2500 - empire

3000 - low sec

3500 - 0.0 - 5.0

4000 - 5.0 - 1.0


Also would like updates on rare low sec ice belts? will their be any at all, if so how much ?


CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We're updating SISI now with Odyssey, and it's not quite going to have our latest Ice designs in this build. So I wanted to give a clear update on our plans here so you all don't get confused by the numbers live on SISI today.

Here's what we currently have planned for the volumes of ice in each Ice Anomaly:

Highsec:
2500 units of standard racial ice.

Lowsec:
3000 units of standard racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust

Nullsec with weak truesec (0.0 to -0.5):
3000 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
500 units of Dark Glitter
200 units of Gelidus

Nullsec with strong truesec (-0.5 to -1.0):
3500 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
1000 units of Dark Glitter
300 units of Gelidus
250 units of Krystallos

As mentioned before, these belts will appear in systems that currently have ice belts, and will respawn four hours after they are depleted.


We're also adjusting the composition of Krystallos to bring it out of the gutter and help ensure enough ozone supply:
Heavy Water: 125 (+25)
Liquid Ozone: 500 (+250)
Stront: 125 (+25)
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2013-05-09 18:47:05 UTC
Wasse wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


But we indeed had allot of fun: http://evenews24.com/2012/03/19/disaster-strikes-for-fail-the-legion-drops-it-like-its-hot/

If we had more infra-structure like a revamped POS, the sov was a little different, some ways to get ice, we could still be there... and more small alliances could have their space, so more good PVP would be available.

But I'm Happy that the next expansion will be "Build Your empire" Themed... so we still have hope...


Fun's good, however you have it. Even if it's at others expense :). Actually, it normally is, isn't it?

But here is what I don't get. Why does getting ice matter?

Before the increase in isotope prices, mining ice in high-sec gave you something like 6million isk/hour? (with good orca buffs). Even now, if my math is right (which it may not be), its 12mill/hour?

Why not do something better to make isk, and then simply buy/import the fuel? It goes to the whole terrible concept of "if I mine it its free". You do whatever you can to make isk - then buy what you need. It is often far more efficient then procuring exactly what you need. Especially in the case of fuel, as the price was kept artificially low with bots/afk miners.



"if I mine it its free" Is a totally wrong concept. The point is that if you have to BUY, you have to buy it from Hi-SEC, and Then you have to use manny Jump-Freighters jumps to go there and come back. So in the end it becomes really expensive and it becomes really hard for the pilots doing it. This alliance disbanded because the guys that was feeding the infrastructure got tired.

If we could produce our stuff down there ( and we do had people to mine and craft the fuel) then maybe we could have lasted longer...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Lurifax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-05-09 19:05:33 UTC
@Fozzie

Nice changes, care to tell us if the ice anomloly will repswan completely after DT if not mined completely?

Also there seems to be an error with the numbers:

For -0.1 to -0.5

3000 units of improved racial ice
400 units of Glare Crust
500 units of Dark Glitter
200 units of Gelidus

We did a scan of a icebelt in -0.1 system and it only had 4 pieces of Dark Glitter with around 40 units in each.
Megarom
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#110 - 2013-05-09 19:13:46 UTC
Why is it a good idea to have everything scale from true sec?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#111 - 2013-05-09 19:22:46 UTC
Megarom wrote:
Why is it a good idea to have everything scale from true sec?


Makes some space more valuable, acting as a conflict driver. At least in theory.


I have wondered for a while why there aren't any Ice Grav Sites. (Or any ice in missions as scenery; there are plenty with a chunk of Ore)


Might be interesting to reduce the 'belt spawns' further, and have more mining missions with ice in them (probably L4s), some Mission ice, which the agent needs, but also regular ice. With no ISK pay out. Cherry picking isn't easy, and it requires people to do more.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mr Kav
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2013-05-09 19:49:03 UTC
So I'm an ISBoxer man - I run 23 Ice Miners.

With these new changes I can personally clear an entire Ice spawn in 48 minutes... the problem is I'm only 1/4 of the miners in system on a normal day so a single Ice spawn in my system will last roughly TWELVE MINUTES based on current number of miners (& you can bet the neighbours will come looking once their belts are depleted too!)

Based on that my normal 4 hours of play time a day will only get me 1 spawn giving around 30 ice a day or 180mil / month (at current pricing)

Now I know I can move to another system but every HS system will clear there belts within 30 mins of spawning so it'll be difficult to get access to any decent quantity of ice.


@CCP Fozzie - If I cant make a profit on an account I'm not going to keep PLEX'ing / paying for it.
I dont think an ice spawn should last less than 2-3 hours so you need to increase the 2,500 to between 25,000 & 35,000 per spawn minimum.

Kav
@KavonEve
Ephemerita
Death and Tax Evader
#113 - 2013-05-09 19:56:41 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Serith Ellecon wrote:
I want to know what happens to systems that currently have the "wrong" racial ice type.

There is a system in a certain null location in Sansha space that should spawn Amarri ice, but spawns Gallente instead. Will that remain Gallente ice? Or will it become Amarri?


Let me know what system you're wondering about and I'll double check to see if we should make an exception. But we distributed the new belts by region so as of today's sisi patch it will be Amarr ice.



One such system is 3PPT-9 in paragon soul. It contains a gellente ice field in an amarr system.

Why not mix the ice a little in some of the border regions where highsec sway is less noticeable? This would increase strategic value and possibly even cause a few extra SOV exchanges.
Wasse
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2013-05-09 20:03:04 UTC
Mr Kav wrote:
So I'm an ISBoxer man - I run 23 Ice Miners.

With these new changes I can personally clear an entire Ice spawn in 48 minutes... the problem is I'm only 1/4 of the miners in system on a normal day so a single Ice spawn in my system will last roughly TWELVE MINUTES based on current number of miners (& you can bet the neighbours will come looking once their belts are depleted too!)

Based on that my normal 4 hours of play time a day will only get me 1 spawn giving around 30 ice a day or 180mil / month (at current pricing)

Now I know I can move to another system but every HS system will clear there belts within 30 mins of spawning so it'll be difficult to get access to any decent quantity of ice.


@CCP Fozzie - If I cant make a profit on an account I'm not going to keep PLEX'ing / paying for it.
I dont think an ice spawn should last less than 2-3 hours so you need to increase the 2,500 to between 25,000 & 35,000 per spawn minimum.

Kav
@KavonEve


Not for nothing... but this tells me this is one of the things they don't want to see continuing. Even if it means lost subscriptions.
None ofthe Above
#115 - 2013-05-09 20:03:52 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Any chance of wandering ice anomalies, like the uncommon ore ones?

And yes, this is mostly because I hate mining ice for LO and HW in highsec. Blink


I have to admit, I thought it was a missed opportunity to have the ice only spawn in systems that previously had belts.

And I'd like to see some ore and ice sites require additional scanning rather than just being easily picked up by the discovery scanner.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Beaver Retriever
Reality Sequence
#116 - 2013-05-09 20:19:41 UTC
Mr Kav wrote:
So I'm an ISBoxer man - I run 23 Ice Miners.

With these new changes I can personally clear an entire Ice spawn in 48 minutes... the problem is I'm only 1/4 of the miners in system on a normal day so a single Ice spawn in my system will last roughly TWELVE MINUTES based on current number of miners (& you can bet the neighbours will come looking once their belts are depleted too!)

Based on that my normal 4 hours of play time a day will only get me 1 spawn giving around 30 ice a day or 180mil / month (at current pricing)

Now I know I can move to another system but every HS system will clear there belts within 30 mins of spawning so it'll be difficult to get access to any decent quantity of ice.


@CCP Fozzie - If I cant make a profit on an account I'm not going to keep PLEX'ing / paying for it.
I dont think an ice spawn should last less than 2-3 hours so you need to increase the 2,500 to between 25,000 & 35,000 per spawn minimum.

Kav
@KavonEve

Oh no, multiboxers might unsub their account. If your only argument is that CCP will lose your sub revenue from 23 afk'ing miners, you've got an argument about as good as the ones botters use.

It would seem to me that if your post is correct, you've just proven CCP right in this change - ice mining is now profitable for normal people, whereas multiboxers unsub their accounts because mass-mining suddenly isn't the way to go.

Also, nice signing of your post there, totally didn't catch your name to the left of the post.
Mr Kav
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2013-05-09 20:54:48 UTC
My argument is that either Ice mining will not be profitable for anyone or lots of miners quit & prices of Ice products go up, due to limited supply, so much that any activity requiring them will become ridiculously expensive.

Neither of these options are good for the game as a whole.
Zakarumit CZ
Zakarum Industries
Forgers United
#118 - 2013-05-09 20:57:05 UTC
I still think 4 hours precise respawn timer is a big mistake in many ways. It should be completely random. I would also prefer ice to be spawning randomly in all systems, not just some special ones.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#119 - 2013-05-09 20:58:01 UTC
Mr Kav wrote:
Based on that my normal 4 hours of play time a day will only get me 1 spawn giving around 30 ice a day or 180mil / month (at current pricing)


:qq: ShockedGuess You're going to have to find something to do in eve online. Have you considered trying PVP? I hear it can be fun sometimes.
Mr Kav
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-05-09 21:04:12 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Mr Kav wrote:
Based on that my normal 4 hours of play time a day will only get me 1 spawn giving around 30 ice a day or 180mil / month (at current pricing)


:qq: ShockedGuess You're going to have to find something to do in eve online. Have you considered trying PVP? I hear it can be fun sometimes.



I have 2 PvP accounts, 2 PvE accounts, 2 Manu/Reasearch accounts, a Freighter, 2 trading accounts, 30 Miners & an Orca/Rorqual pilot.

The miners are just my ISK farm - I do plenty else in Eve.