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Details and update on the Ice Anomaly design

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EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2013-05-09 16:58:14 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Nope,
Procurer is still useless in low sec. What good does more tank do you if CONCORD is not on the way to save you?

Tank means nothing to a ship so easily tackled in space where CONCORD does not spawn.

it aligns much faster so it can be landing on station when the attacker lands in the belt instead of still aligning, so it survives
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-05-09 17:05:25 UTC
A lot of tinfoil in this thread. I skimmed mostly, but some highlights.

Goons Stacked CSM with null - Yes, of course we did, after loudly warning we would do so if they changed the system. We had never previously done so, and didn't care before. But this new system forces you to care. So we do now. SHOCKING!

Goons want to Tax - Uhh, yes, we have been pushing for individual bottom up income that is taxable for years. It results in a healthier game, and more vibrant null. Nothing hidden about this agenda at all. CCP hasn't given us any new taxation mechanics since POCOs so we theory craft ways to tax the coming spike in mining. I don't see how this is relevant at all to the discussion about the changes themselves. This conversation is occurring in every competent alliance out there. I understand it probably wasn't occurring in GENTS until we brought it up. NOT SHOCKING!

We pushed for the Tech nerf, while on the CSM. We then spiked that crap to 180k to prove a point, we ate a nerf. This is how pushing for change works in EVE. You see something broken, you highlight just how broken it is, it gets fixed. Nothing magical here.

People invoking the "think of the newbies/casuals" argument. I would direct you to CCP Soundwave's (I think it was him) previous comments that this automatically means the person is not genuine. I tend to agree, anyone invoking this in their argument is only using it to serve their own interests. It is the EVE equivalent of "Because HITLER!"

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2013-05-09 17:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
OK Fozzie, but it still don't give any help to small alliances.

Any chance that we get random spawns of this sites in systems without previous existing ice belts including Wormholes?

The lack of possibility to make POS fuel have always being one crucial factor on why small alliances have hard time trying to live far from hi-sec.... Give us a hand! The big alliances can keep their static spawns!!! We just need to get one of this once in a while! This will improve allot the game-play!!!

PLEASE!!!!!!Big smile

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Ereshgikal
Wharf Crusaders
#84 - 2013-05-09 17:15:26 UTC
digi wrote:
Ereshgikal wrote:


I see that some in GSF have quite interesting definition of "sperg". I would've thought the cultural revolution would've eradicated badposters like you. :)


I can see that you took my use of sperg as a personal slur towards the Bloodtear. I've met them, IRL. I like them. They are often very correct in their assessments. This is not one they are correct in. Furthermore, I'm disappointed in this thread.

I'm going to start having 10th birthdays at the end of this month. I've mined for a long time. These are good changes. They are taking the game in a great direction.

As far as me being purged, I'm useful. Which is more than I can say for many pubbie allies.



"Abluuu, abluuu, abluuuu" ain't that useful to me. Can you kindly explain why the changes are great in your opinion? Explain as though you were to explain it to a allied useless pubbie.
Morgoth Xep
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2013-05-09 17:15:47 UTC
Dramaticus wrote:
FYI next time you want to pull the 'Goons are just looking out for themselves!' card remember that we've been the ones not only planning for, but advocating a tech nerf and moon rebalance because ultimately it was the best thing for EVE.



I cannot reconcile this idea and the one that I am told to have where Goons are diabolical, selfish, cunning all while being incompetent, lazy and stupid so I will simply ignore it.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2013-05-09 17:18:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Soft Insanity wrote:
Fozzie, can we get ice miners on the Venture Pwwwwease?


I've wanted that for a while, but to do it right we'd need to allow faster cycling ice miners that create smaller blocks. And I have no idea how we would go about implementing that.


It would be interesting, even if you put a small mining laser that take ages to cut a block...

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2013-05-09 17:19:07 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
OK Fozzie, but it still don't give any help to small alliances.

Any chance that we get random spawns of this sites in systems without previous existing ice belts including Wormholes?

The lack of possibility to make POS fuel have always being one crucial factor on why small alliances have hard time trying to live far from hi-sec.... Give us a hand! The big alliances can keep their static spawns!!! We just need to get one of this once in a while! This will improve allot the game-play!!!


It's pretty easy to find an ice belt in null sec. Your killboard doesn't seem to indicate a ton of combat for your corp, other than a little activity in your wormhole, but you apparently visit jita and syndicate from time to time. And there are 20 systems in syndicate with ice belts for instance.

I would imagine you have some exit hole that would be near an ice belt from time to time. Just chain collapse till you get near an ice belt.

I don't think disappearing into a wormhole forever without a reason to leave is 'good game play' either.
Morgoth Xep
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2013-05-09 17:19:46 UTC
Aryth wrote:

People invoking the "think of the newbies/casuals" argument. I would direct you to CCP Soundwave's (I think it was him) previous comments that this automatically means the person is not genuine. I tend to agree, anyone invoking this in their argument is only using it to serve their own interests. It is the EVE equivalent of "Because ******!"



I'm sorry, Aryth, but you're the one being disingenuous here. Without easy access to safe, highsec ice mining how will newbies learn that playing Eve is all about not playing Eve? And how will they fuel massive networks of jump bridges, jump freighters and capital operations? With highsec ice gone, newbies will be forced to actually click buttons while they run missions, probe for sites to run or trade Caracals on the open market.

It is the newbies that suffer the most.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2013-05-09 17:23:40 UTC
Morgoth Xep wrote:
It is the newbies that suffer the most.


Won't someone cry for my 20 newbie Mackinaw pilots? They get confused when forced to warp to another system.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2013-05-09 17:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Kismeteer wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
OK Fozzie, but it still don't give any help to small alliances.

Any chance that we get random spawns of this sites in systems without previous existing ice belts including Wormholes?

The lack of possibility to make POS fuel have always being one crucial factor on why small alliances have hard time trying to live far from hi-sec.... Give us a hand! The big alliances can keep their static spawns!!! We just need to get one of this once in a while! This will improve allot the game-play!!!


It's pretty easy to find an ice belt in null sec. Your killboard doesn't seem to indicate a ton of combat for your corp, other than a little activity in your wormhole, but you apparently visit jita and syndicate from time to time. And there are 20 systems in syndicate with ice belts for instance.

I would imagine you have some exit hole that would be near an ice belt from time to time. Just chain collapse till you get near an ice belt.

I don't think disappearing into a wormhole forever without a reason to leave is 'good game play' either.


We quit nullsec last year, this was one of the reasons, we was in one of the last independent alliances of scalding pass at the time, only 2 systems, no outpost.... I bet that now every alliance there is part of a block....
Now we are in Hi-sec, mostly running incursions. We have some WH Ops too...

And I don't think that you can understand how is to live in null without a huge alliance... It is Really HARD!!! more then WH...

obs: http://evenews24.com/2012/03/19/disaster-strikes-for-fail-the-legion-drops-it-like-its-hot/
This fight happened in our null-sec system. we called PL and they got good kills!

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#91 - 2013-05-09 17:28:22 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

Nope,
Procurer is still useless in low sec. What good does more tank do you if CONCORD is not on the way to save you?

Tank means nothing to a ship so easily tackled in space where CONCORD does not spawn.

it aligns much faster so it can be landing on station when the attacker lands in the belt instead of still aligning, so it survives

No it still dies, It is very easy to catch. If you were correct low sec mining would be common rather than non existent as it is now. After all the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most valuable ores currently are Hedbergite, memorphite, and Jaspet, all found in abundance in low sec. Yet nobody mines there.

Yes the skiff can survive with a skilled pilot at the helm, but is still far to easy to catch, making the risk of low sec mining to high to justify to small increase in pay out. As I said, If you were correct then people would be using them to mine in low sec, but they do not.

Not that the skiff needs much, a return of its +2 warp strength would be more than enough. How many solo low sec pirates fly around with 3 or more points? Some do, but their low numbers would shift the balance enough to make null sec mining in such a ship worthwhile.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#92 - 2013-05-09 17:30:29 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

No it still dies, It is very easy to catch. If you were correct low sec mining would be common rather than non existent as it is now. After all the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most valuable ores currently are Hedbergite, memorphite, and Jaspet, all found in abundance in low sec. Yet nobody mines there.

I'm not saying lowsec mining is common or a good idea. I'm saying you're wrong that the procurer is useless because you apparently didn't realize what part of the design was optimized for mining in hostile space (the align, not the tank).
Schwa Nuts
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2013-05-09 17:31:26 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
Once again you, a non-industrialist, are trying to control the mining profession. This is like a council of men voting that abortion should be illegal. You claim my math is hilariously off, but give no numbers. My numbers are accurate. You say highsec easily supplies its own demand of ozone, but that is OBVIOUSLY not true. This only highlights how little you understand the intricate details of the profession. Highsec ice produces ozone:HW at a 1:2 ratio, there is never enough ozone to match demand.


Ice mining in its current form is such a ridiculously low effort AFK activity, it's laughable. Anyone that defends the current state of ice mining is just mad that their free isk is disappearing. Fozzie did a great thing here. My only suggestion would be a more random respawn timer.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#94 - 2013-05-09 17:33:20 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
OK Fozzie, but it still don't give any help to small alliances.

Any chance that we get random spawns of this sites in systems without previous existing ice belts including Wormholes?

The lack of possibility to make POS fuel have always being one crucial factor on why small alliances have hard time trying to live far from hi-sec.... Give us a hand! The big alliances can keep their static spawns!!! We just need to get one of this once in a while! This will improve allot the game-play!!!

PLEASE!!!!!!Big smile

It would be cool if some ICE rocks were added to the random grav site spawns. Not the static hidden belts, but the random ones. Belts with ORE and ICE in the same randomly spwaned belt. They can spawn in random systems in K-space and W-space. Make them rare, so they are not a reliable source, but a nice bonus when you do get one.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#95 - 2013-05-09 17:38:24 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
It would be cool if some ICE rocks were added to the random grav site spawns. Not the static hidden belts, but the random ones. Belts with ORE and ICE in the same randomly spwaned belt. They can spawn in random systems in K-space and W-space. Make them rare, so they are not a reliable source, but a nice bonus when you do get one.


That would be really mean to do to miners, since they'd have to mine out that entire spawn to get a respawn. Have to do module changes etc instead of just crystals.

It seriously isn't hard to find an ICE belt. Though it might be if you're in empire and looking to AFK ice mine.
Anthar Thebess
#96 - 2013-05-09 17:41:16 UTC
What about NPC nullsec ice ?
Will it be connected to trusec ? or boosted as we are talking about NPC Null.
From my perspective mining in NPC null sec should be much more profitable than in SOV Null.
Why ?
We want all those Ronquals on belts }:>

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Wasse
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-05-09 17:46:34 UTC
I'm really confused how anyone can outright object to the ice mining changes unless they fit one of the following criteria:

1. Afk mine

2. Bot

3. Are not a miner, and like the low prices on ice products.

4. Run a crazy number of accounts. And I don't mean 6 miners, I mean much more than that.

As it stands right now, most people should never be ice mining; unless you are going to afk mine. It is such terrible money, due to the number of botters/afk miners.

One thing I am a big proponent of it, however - is fixing the compression time on ice. It has nothing to do with wanting to tax dodge, but moving it to a system with a refinery.

Let's look at branch, for example. 10 systems with ice belts there have a non refinery station, or no station. Now, at least the non-refinery ones could have minmatar outposts built. But the rest, not so much.
Wasse
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-05-09 17:49:16 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:


We quit nullsec last year, this was one of the reasons, we was in one of the last independent alliances of scalding pass at the time, only 2 systems, no outpost.... I bet that now every alliance there is part of a block....
Now we are in Hi-sec, mostly running incursions. We have some WH Ops too...

And I don't think that you can understand how is to live in null without a huge alliance... It is Really HARD!!! more then WH...


So... join/ally with a bigger alliance?
Move to NPC null-sec?
Rent space?

You have a number of options open to you. You might not like them - but you have the options open to you.

I can understand people not liking coalitions, but only being big enough to have two systems, well, yeah. That's a bit small for non-npc 0.0.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2013-05-09 18:00:49 UTC
Kismeteer wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
It would be cool if some ICE rocks were added to the random grav site spawns. Not the static hidden belts, but the random ones. Belts with ORE and ICE in the same randomly spwaned belt. They can spawn in random systems in K-space and W-space. Make them rare, so they are not a reliable source, but a nice bonus when you do get one.


That would be really mean to do to miners, since they'd have to mine out that entire spawn to get a respawn. Have to do module changes etc instead of just crystals.

It seriously isn't hard to find an ICE belt. Though it might be if you're in empire and looking to AFK ice mine.


We meant NOS STATIC GRAV SITES. So no respawn.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#100 - 2013-05-09 18:11:51 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
We meant NOS STATIC GRAV SITES. So no respawn.


There is a respawn, just not in the same system, but just somewhere else in eve. Otherwise, it times out in 3 days. Your idea just encourages cherry picking.

It'd be nice to get some response from people who actually have done some mining, maybe even the mythical 'casual multiboxer'?