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Details and update on the Ice Anomaly design

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Tania Batchwood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#241 - 2013-05-17 18:58:57 UTC
the problem isn't that ice miners won't be able to AFK.

The problem is that ice miners will not be able to mine for more than 3 hours between the respawns. Period.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#242 - 2013-05-17 19:03:42 UTC
they can mine between respawns, and will
Tania Batchwood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#243 - 2013-05-17 19:50:34 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
they can mine between respawns, and will

what's wrong with you? How will they mine ICE between the respawns?
Maybe do 20 jumps looking for another ice anomaly which hasn't been mined already?

Anyway, there obviously isn't any reason to try and communicate with trolls.
Danni stark
#244 - 2013-05-17 19:52:07 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Doubling ice miner yield is going to make it higher effort then ore mining anyways. Stop being a giant baby because you have to actually compete for resources like everyone else in this game.


actually, it's not.

high sec asteroids last like 3 cycles at the very most. that's what, ~6 mins?

it'll still take over 10 mins to fill a retriever with ice, and you can be afk the whole time because asteroids still contain more ice than a retriever's cargo can hold.

ice is still going to be close to **** all effort, and it's going to be worth double the isk.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Danni stark
#245 - 2013-05-17 19:53:04 UTC
Tania Batchwood wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
they can mine between respawns, and will

what's wrong with you? How will they mine ICE between the respawns?
Maybe do 20 jumps looking for another ice anomaly which hasn't been mined already?

Anyway, there obviously isn't any reason to try and communicate with trolls.


do you really need it pointing out to you that ice isn't the only thing you can mine?

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2013-05-17 20:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Marksalot
Tania Batchwood wrote:


Obviously you are trolling. The point of my initial post was the respawn timer. It needs to be fixed so ice miners can actually mine ice instead of waiting 4 hours and mining for 20 minutes.

To which I said, "mine ore", then you replied "but a bloo bloo bloo fishing"

Tania Batchwood wrote:

Fyi both 7 and 10 minutes you're mentioning are completely wrong as all miners know. If you ain't a miner there really isn't any point in posting in a mining thread also.

Eve IPH broke on me and I can't be bothered to calculate your stupid highsec space-peasant yields by hand. Calm your autism.



Danni stark wrote:
Tania Batchwood wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
they can mine between respawns, and will

what's wrong with you? How will they mine ICE between the respawns?
Maybe do 20 jumps looking for another ice anomaly which hasn't been mined already?

Anyway, there obviously isn't any reason to try and communicate with trolls.


do you really need it pointing out to you that ice isn't the only thing you can mine?


But mining ore is so hard!
Sir Marksalot
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#247 - 2013-05-17 20:24:30 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Doubling ice miner yield is going to make it higher effort then ore mining anyways. Stop being a giant baby because you have to actually compete for resources like everyone else in this game.


actually, it's not.

high sec asteroids last like 3 cycles at the very most. that's what, ~6 mins?

it'll still take over 10 mins to fill a retriever with ice, and you can be afk the whole time because asteroids still contain more ice than a retriever's cargo can hold.

ice is still going to be close to **** all effort, and it's going to be worth double the isk.


3? Seriously? I had no idea it was that bad.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#248 - 2013-05-17 20:50:54 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Doubling ice miner yield is going to make it higher effort then ore mining anyways. Stop being a giant baby because you have to actually compete for resources like everyone else in this game.


actually, it's not.

high sec asteroids last like 3 cycles at the very most. that's what, ~6 mins?

it'll still take over 10 mins to fill a retriever with ice, and you can be afk the whole time because asteroids still contain more ice than a retriever's cargo can hold.

ice is still going to be close to **** all effort, and it's going to be worth double the isk.

Did you really think I'd have that ice roid all for myself?
Danni stark
#249 - 2013-05-17 20:51:35 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
3? Seriously? I had no idea it was that bad.


yep, some are less, so you're basically targeting a new asteroid every 2-3 mins as at least one of your targeted asteroids pops every cycle usually. if you're really unlucky and start mining a belt that has small asteroids you can pop every asteroid in one cycle, i've had that before. not a pleasant experience. as you can imagine, in a hulk you have more chance of at least one asteroid popping in comparison to a retriever, and in a procurer pretty much everything pops in one cycle because you don't have lasers to spread about.

ore mining really isn't afk friendly. in high sec you're spending your time making sure your lasers are doing something, and in null you're watching intel/local like a hawk.

ice in it's current form is the last bastion of afk mining, and even the new ice will still be more afk friendly than high sec ore.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Danni stark
#250 - 2013-05-17 20:53:51 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Doubling ice miner yield is going to make it higher effort then ore mining anyways. Stop being a giant baby because you have to actually compete for resources like everyone else in this game.


actually, it's not.

high sec asteroids last like 3 cycles at the very most. that's what, ~6 mins?

it'll still take over 10 mins to fill a retriever with ice, and you can be afk the whole time because asteroids still contain more ice than a retriever's cargo can hold.

ice is still going to be close to **** all effort, and it's going to be worth double the isk.

Did you really think I'd have that ice roid all for myself?


unless there's *quick math* like what, 5+ retrievers (10+ if you spread your lasers) all on the same asteroid, you can go afk until your cargo is full (all 5 of you can) because the asteroid still won't pop.

the point still stands, ice is still more afkable than ore.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Danni stark
#251 - 2013-05-17 20:54:49 UTC
Sir Marksalot wrote:
But mining ore is so hard!


the only hard bit about it is finding the sweet spot where all the asteroids are within 26km so you don't have to move about :)

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#252 - 2013-05-17 21:26:58 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
unless there's *quick math* like what, 5+ retrievers (10+ if you spread your lasers) all on the same asteroid, you can go afk until your cargo is full (all 5 of you can) because the asteroid still won't pop.

the point still stands, ice is still more afkable than ore.

And 5+ is unlikely?
We now have about 100 miners in a busy icebelt. That will mean 5 per asteroid on average. Unless nearby fields have been depleted and those miners come to 'my' belt as well.
Danni stark
#253 - 2013-05-17 21:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
El 1974 wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
unless there's *quick math* like what, 5+ retrievers (10+ if you spread your lasers) all on the same asteroid, you can go afk until your cargo is full (all 5 of you can) because the asteroid still won't pop.

the point still stands, ice is still more afkable than ore.

And 5+ is unlikely?
We now have about 100 miners in a busy icebelt. That will mean 5 per asteroid on average. Unless nearby fields have been depleted and those miners come to 'my' belt as well.


largely irrelevant. ice mining is still more accommodating to the afk playstyle than ore ever will.

we don't have 100 miners in a busy ice belt at all, no matter how much you sensationalise it and whine about it the fact remains that ice mining is STILL more afk friendly than ore mining.

edit: just to prove the point, i went and counted how many ships were in all 3 ice belts in a system in the forge, less than 100, the busiest belt couldn't even break 50 miners.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Robert Saint
The Grumpy Dogs
#254 - 2013-05-17 23:04:51 UTC
Come on folks, stop bagging on ICE miners for throwing out their pain...... make friends!!

FACTS: ICE is changing and the AFK model is changing with it. I think the prices will rise and spawn/mining time will benefit the industrious. As pointed out, once the dust settles, I think it will work in a similar profit zone, maybe more, but with the ORE business model instead.

Since, I also have 8 ICE miners that I multibox 12 total accounts, I have been trying to ORE mine a few of them to see how the play style is going to change, and it's a bit different for sure.. .... .one certainly has to watch the guns more. For me it's enough to where the prior ICE miner poster was correct in the loss of accounts due to the change (I am going to only keep 4 active for Battlebot activities)... as it's just too much work to manage the pilots through out the day as you do something else if you have to keep setting up the guns all the time. I own my own business and just have them running in the background.

I know many folks don't like AFK industrialists, since many forum folks are more the Battle hardened purists in here, but the fact that ICE is/was the only pure AFK type of activity, means a lot of accounts will close for sure. Perhaps that's not a big deal and will actually help the lag issues sometimes with fewer accounts logged in. I imagine CCP has run some numbers and activity logs to see how many ICE miner accounts are in the field. Since the activity really pays for the PLEX anyway, if I was CCP, I would make this change as well, since I would rather have actual CC paying customers, then ones paying with PLEX earned in game for mining ICE....

Best
xavier69
Stark Enterprises LLC
#255 - 2013-05-18 02:58:20 UTC  |  Edited by: xavier69
10 years latter why are you changing core mechanics in the game ?

After what happened with PI i have little to no faith in CCP to understand the after effects of such changes.

I got burned on PI hard.
I will make sure I have 1 year of ice stockpiled for my pos so this mess can get all sorted out. even if it gets cheaper its worth it to me not to take the risk of ccp screwing the pooch again.

Sorry I logged in one day robotics was 8k per unit the next day they where 70k and everyone who stockpiled them ruined my t2 business cause I couldn't compete price wise all thanks to CCP.

I see this change as necessary as a screen door on submarine. go make more dust stuff or add stuff stop messing with core mechanics

1 year latter I am back to making 6.2b per month but i fear I am about to get screwed again by ccp

Quote:

Since the activity really pays for the PLEX anyway, if I was CCP, I would make this change as well, since I would rather have actual CC paying customers, then ones paying with PLEX earned in game for mining ICE


Every plex "someone" paid real money for if the plex prices go much higher the # accounts will start to fall more, I can only imagine this is a easy mode update that will drop the price of ice and plex and hopefully push the market forward. if there aim is to make plex more exp and unattainable it will surely mean less accounts. You have to look at it like this if the miner can't make enough to plex 4 accounts he will stop buying them & someone bought those with real $ that CCP got Less demand will mean less plex ccp sells. making plex more or less in large amounts is bad idea for ccp

The fact time codes and plex prices have nearly doubled in a year means this games eco is in serious trouble hopefully ccp know wtf its doing =)
MT Sackett
Looksee Lightbringers
#256 - 2013-05-18 04:19:26 UTC  |  Edited by: MT Sackett
Sir Marksalot wrote:
Tania Batchwood wrote:


Wow, very clever. Never realized that... Sarcasm in its worse...

You do realize that ice mining is completely different than ore mining, right? Ore mining requires a lot more attention than ice mining.

Ice mining is basically like real life fishing. It doesn't require a lot attention most of the times but still a lot of people find it very exciting.

Ore mining is completely different in any way and I assure you that not all people that like ice mining will like ore mining (and the opposite of course). CCP has decided to stop people fishing without giving them something similar to do and that can't be good for them and us.

Now regarding CCP's wallet, I don't think Odyssey is so good in other aspects as to replace the thousands of accounts that the ice miners will deactivate. I for example have 8 accounts only for mining. 6 miners, 1 orca, 1 freighter. Most probably I will only keep 1 or 2 active. The rest will be deactivated until CCP decides to lower the ice anomaly respawn timer down to 5 to 20 minutes which they will eventually do. Unless of course they find some other way to attract multiboxers like me :)




Oh you poor dear, having to interact with eve every 7 or so minutes must be heartbreaking.


e: As opposed to the 10 or so that ice miners can pull off under the current mechanics.
Also, ice mining is like fishing if you are casting your line in a stocked pond full of half starved fish that are basically guaranteed to bite. And the fish are all too small to be a challenge.
Then take away the whole ~peaceful outdoors~ part too.


Sir Marksalot wrote:

"Also, ice mining is like fishing if you are casting your line in a stocked pond full of half starved fish that are basically guaranteed to bite. And the fish are all too small to be a challenge."

LMAO, trolling I think , but your description above sounds much like standard goon game play in hi sec, that's interesting thinking skills.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#257 - 2013-05-18 06:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: El 1974
Danni stark wrote:
largely irrelevant. ice mining is still more accommodating to the afk playstyle than ore ever will.


The difference between being "more accomadating to the afk playstyle than ore" and "you can go afk until your cargo is full" can be measured in quite a few miner accounts that will lapse.
Danni stark
#258 - 2013-05-18 08:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Danni stark
El 1974 wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
largely irrelevant. ice mining is still more accommodating to the afk playstyle than ore ever will.


The difference between being "more accomadating to the afk playstyle than ore" and "you can go afk until your cargo is full" can be measured in quite a few miner accounts that will lapse.


but as i just demonstrated by basic mathematics, you can do that.

let me do it again just so you're clear.
high sec ice asteroid, ~150 units of ice, that's 150000m3 of ice.
mackinaw's ore bay, 35000m3.

150000 > 35000. as such, you can go afk until your cargo is full, just like you can now. except, only for half as long, but you can still do it.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#259 - 2013-05-18 09:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: El 1974
Danni stark wrote:
but as i just demonstrated by basic mathematics, you can do that.

IF there are few others mining that asteroid, which - as I stated before - I don't expect.

Edit: your 'proof' wasn't very convincing to me.
Danni stark
#260 - 2013-05-18 11:00:24 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
Danni stark wrote:
but as i just demonstrated by basic mathematics, you can do that.

IF there are few others mining that asteroid, which - as I stated before - I don't expect.

Edit: your 'proof' wasn't very convincing to me.


so what if there are? if you go back a few more posts i even illustrated how that isn't a problem.

now, can you please stop crying?

Ice Mining Skill Plan.