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Miners: Why do you mine?

Author
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2011-12-23 11:32:53 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
I mine as means to make ISK. Right now I am in High sec. In few months I will be camped out in a WH makin in a hour what I do in 2 days. I have a Hauling/Booster alt with me at all times when mining. In 20 mins his cargo hold is full and he warps back to the station with 2 million ISK worth of ore. I just started fly my Retriver today, and have already started turning a profit. Sure it's only 15 mil a day, but when I take the trip to Jita on sunday that amounts to 105 mil a week. I mine only one ore type too. With my alt I stay in belt constantly mining for 4-5 hours before I cherry picked the belt. In 30 days when I am flying a Hulk those numbers will increase. I will be able to cherry pick a whole system in a few hours. In your average system with 4 belts that 60 mil a day. Then throw in the Orca my alt will be flying in a couple months I will be able to clear a belt belt by myself in 2-3 hours. Mining simply is the most profitable activity in EVE. Traders can lose money and need a decent chunk of ISK to make it work right and tap into differnt areas of the market. The only way you money as a miner is if some asshat blows up your ship. If it is a cheap barge no problem, but if it is a properly fit Hulk it will cost you easily 300 mil to replace. People say this game could make without miners, but they wroung. Sure you reprocess drone poop, and mission loot but it will take much more time to aquire the minerals.

Mining is not the most profitable ... Once you realize that all that ore you can refine can be turned into minerals which can be turned into moduels and sold for considerable more profit ..
Any thing that "adds value" to a product makes more isk .. so if you can buy ore cheap and then refine it at 0 loss and 0 tax you're adding value, turning minerals into modules adds value, unless you're part of the minority who don't understand that selling at a price equal to 80% of the production cost because what I mined is free is not making a profit
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#182 - 2011-12-23 12:14:03 UTC
Why do I mine? Well, I generally don't do it too often. The ISK is terrible and the activity itself is absolutely soul-crushingly boring. But it feels like I'm producing something. I'm living in 0.1 low sec, so I'm mostly pulling up Mega and Zyd by the tonne, but it's still pitiful ISK compared to a couple of years ago.

I think it's the feeling of accomplishment when you've mined the minerals and built something to sell on the market. But as I said, it's more a sidejob than anything primary.

I'm also mining in the vague hope that mining will one day be overhauled.

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka

Atuk Belinen
Red Bluff
#183 - 2011-12-23 19:13:27 UTC
first off let me start by saying i have been a miner if thats your term you use for over 5 years. i perfer the term indy as i do more then mine.
i build, mine, invent, scan, and market, trade. with that said yes it gets boring, yes it is click and repeat. that is everything in eve though. every task, profession, job etc is all the same and all very boring. as for indy guys we have gotten nothing new. the expansions have been totally un eventful for people like me. but i still do it day in and day out. fun hell no. profitable sort of yes.tbh though this field is a lot of work, lots of running around. would i change to a different field no to much timein at this point. most indy guys are trust worthy and good people, you typically wont finf many scammers or douche bag miners unlike the typical pvp'ers who love to attack us under the guise of bot hunters. anyways thats my two cents
Tierius Fro
Coronado's Cross
#184 - 2011-12-24 22:38:22 UTC
Mining in a gang is a social event, which makes it fun. I mine because I need the mins for whatever I am building. I isk mine just to do something different, a change of pace.

To me EVE is about the satisfaction of completing goals. I don't mine that often, but sometimes I find a hidden belt and I decide I want to pop it!

Fro

http://ridingevewormhole.blogspot.com/

Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#185 - 2011-12-27 17:09:23 UTC
It's like Fishing in WoW.

It's a slower paced activity that gives you more time to chat, plan, plot, manage, and scheme over more intensive activities while not sacrificing your advancement in the financial war that is EVE (to an industrialist, everything is money).

For many others, it's a means to an end. Added income, or neccessary materials for bigger projects. They may not specifically mine for 'casual enjoyment', but they do it because it furthers their goals, and those goals are fun.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

Craterius
Symple Onez
#186 - 2011-12-30 07:20:51 UTC
This is a game.

Why should anyone have to justify to you why they enjoy playing the game as they do?

I mine because I build and sell things and I get more pleasure out of entering the EVE sandbox with my ships and skills and building something to sell in Jita that someone else wants to pay for.

If someone else mines for a different reason, great. Or, if someone else does not mine at all because they find it tedious and boring, that is also great.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#187 - 2011-12-30 11:28:42 UTC
I almost never mine, but one i do its commando!
grave sites and worm holes, (a few miners colecting need stuffs "AKA bait that makes income") there fun you get to explore, there in low or WH space so there is some tension. Its funny to watch noobs jump from belt looking for a hulk they can no have, wile I'm looking for them in my PvP ship Twisted

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

J Kunjeh
#188 - 2011-12-30 19:03:26 UTC
Tramp Oline wrote:
I mine because it's guaranteed isk and I enjoy building and selling stuff. The more I mine myself the less that I have to buy from the market. I've always enjoyed being as self-sufficient as I can. At the end of the day I feel like I've been very productive and I have enjoyed myself. Plus mindlessly mining gives me time to socialize with other people in Eve.


I liked this post and I think it basically sums up why a lot of miners mine. I think one big thing that isn't often mentioned about mining is this: many people do it to feel a part of the world that is Eve, even if only in their own small way...they derive great satisfaction knowing they're a part of this living, breathing virtual world.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Velicitia
XS Tech
#189 - 2011-12-30 20:49:30 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Tramp Oline wrote:
I mine because it's guaranteed isk and I enjoy building and selling stuff. The more I mine myself the less that I have to buy from the market. I've always enjoyed being as self-sufficient as I can. At the end of the day I feel like I've been very productive and I have enjoyed myself. Plus mindlessly mining gives me time to socialize with other people in Eve.


I liked this post and I think it basically sums up why a lot of miners mine. I think one big thing that isn't often mentioned about mining is this: many people do it to feel a part of the world that is Eve, even if only in their own small way...they derive great satisfaction knowing they're a part of this living, breathing virtual world.



I *really* hope the OP isn't deluding himself into thinking that the mined minerals are free...

Provided that's not the case, then I agree as well.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Syphon Lodian
Fabled Enterprises
#190 - 2011-12-30 22:59:32 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
I *really* hope the OP isn't deluding himself into thinking that the mined minerals are free...

Provided that's not the case, then I agree as well.

I don't believe any serious miners think that anymore. By the time you get into Exhumers, or an Indy corp, you have a rudimentary grasp on the EVE economy.

I especially hate it when people claim, "You make more ISK if you trade minerals instead of mining." Basically the concept being, trade what's already on the market, and for the delusional, "Creating minerals from nothing." Want to know how that kind of system operates, where people try to make money from money with no self-sufficiency? It's called Wall Street, the Federal Reserve and fractional-reserve banking etc.... or better known as, insanity. No production, no resources, just trading the economy into the ground.

CCP needs to put some effort into revitalizing mining again. It's just taken for granted now. It doesn't have to be boring as ****, and it shouldn't be the case that miners may or not hope for a 'mining update' every 3-5 years. There should be mining changes or features nearly every expansion, because it's literally the backbone of the entire EVEverse. EVE doesn't have a government to bail out the economy.

♪ "Minerals for Nothing, and your Ships for Free!" ♪
J Kunjeh
#191 - 2011-12-30 23:52:28 UTC
Syphon Lodian wrote:
EVE doesn't have a government to bail out the economy.


Sure it does, in fact, even better, it has an almighty creator: CCP.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Gahagan
White Moon Aeronautics
#192 - 2011-12-31 03:15:40 UTC
I mine because it requires a minimal presence in game. As a college student I'm frequently doing things out of game - reading, studying, working on something, writing some paper, etc - all activities that require me to be in front of a computer for extended periods of time.

Mining is a low-demand, relatively safe way of remaining marginally productive in EvE during times that there are constraints on my playing. When I have more time to play I move up to missioning, poking around in lowsec, and ganking bots.
Kolmogorow
Freedom Resources
#193 - 2011-12-31 13:38:34 UTC
If I would start the game again with no skills and no ISK I will have the goal from day one to mine the ore required to build my own Titan. In those years under permanent drug and alcohol control mining 15 hours a day I would train the skills to build and fly a Titan and sell small amounts of the mined stuff to be able to buy the necessary blueprint copies. Then when the big day comes I have 0 ISK and I build the components and the Titan. When people look at my Titan and cry that they cannot afford such an expensive ship I can say: "Where is the problem? I had 0 ISK. Just mine a few years and get it for free!"
Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2011-12-31 18:56:14 UTC
on the topic of titans, WN. just got 80 of them rapecaged
Velicitia
XS Tech
#195 - 2011-12-31 20:01:00 UTC
Syphon Lodian wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
I *really* hope the OP isn't deluding himself into thinking that the mined minerals are free...

Provided that's not the case, then I agree as well.

I don't believe any serious miners think that anymore. By the time you get into Exhumers, or an Indy corp, you have a rudimentary grasp on the EVE economy.


you'd be surprised... Cry

Syphon Lodian wrote:
I especially hate it when people claim, "You make more ISK if you trade minerals instead of mining." Basically the concept being, trade what's already on the market, and for the delusional, "Creating minerals from nothing." Want to know how that kind of system operates, where people try to make money from money with no self-sufficiency? It's called Wall Street, the Federal Reserve and fractional-reserve banking etc.... or better known as, insanity. No production, no resources, just trading the economy into the ground.


Depends what we're talking about. If it's "just sell the million units of trit you mined at 3 ISK apiece instead of making 10 widgets and selling them at 250k apiece", then I disagree on the basis that the miner/industrialist is cheating themselves out of ISK. Not that I feel bad for taking advantage of the situation or anything ...

Syphon Lodian wrote:
CCP needs to put some effort into revitalizing mining again. It's just taken for granted now. It doesn't have to be boring as ****, and it shouldn't be the case that miners may or not hope for a 'mining update' every 3-5 years. There should be mining changes or features nearly every expansion, because it's literally the backbone of the entire EVEverse. EVE doesn't have a government to bail out the economy.

♪ "Minerals for Nothing, and your Ships for Free!" ♪



Yeah, I kind of agree here ... but really the thing to do is make lowsec more lucrative than hisec... the inherent danger in low makes things more interesting ...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Killstealing
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2012-01-01 01:55:34 UTC
mining isn't the backbone of anything. Reprocessed minerals from drone loot/mission drops are reponsible for the vast majority of minerals. It's more like the penile bone. A funny idea, but not needed unless you are a monkey.
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#197 - 2012-01-01 10:31:36 UTC
Velicitia wrote:



Yeah, I kind of agree here ... but really the thing to do is make lowsec more lucrative than hisec... the inherent danger in low makes things more interesting ...




When you look at closely. Lowsec has too high of a risk for too little reward. Lowsec ores aren't that much more profitable. So naturally a miner will go straight to null or WHs and skip lowsec altogether. If fact for a real differnce you have to go straight to ABC ores to make enough to justify the risk. Since well you can't mine nonstop in either like high sec. So in truth lowsec is actually worse.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.

Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#198 - 2012-01-01 13:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Intar Medris wrote:
Velicitia wrote:



Yeah, I kind of agree here ... but really the thing to do is make lowsec more lucrative than hisec... the inherent danger in low makes things more interesting ...




When you look at closely. Lowsec has too high of a risk for too little reward. Lowsec ores aren't that much more profitable. So naturally a miner will go straight to null or WHs and skip lowsec altogether. If fact for a real differnce you have to go straight to ABC ores to make enough to justify the risk. Since well you can't mine nonstop in either like high sec. So in truth lowsec is actually worse.

With all the hassle you have to go through for mining in null, there isn't much of a benefit to mine there either. Crokite is basically the same iph as pyrox or plag. So that leaves A and B. Then you need to build an industry index up to a level to get the belts you need unless you are in a system that has natural ABC. Then fight over it with all the other miners that helped you get the index up. Oh, this all assumes you can refine perfectly can get ships to null with little hassle, have a place to plop your orca alt, can tank rats in 0.0 belts or have someone you will share your profits with to do so, and can get to a station easily. Awesome! Sign me up! Straight

Here are some numbers: http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5707/mining1i.jpg

Look at ice mining: http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7018/icemining2.jpg

Given the same setup, I don't see the reason to go to null to make isk from mining. In fact, mining itself is kind of a low isk venture even with two accounts. The only reason I do it is because it needs little effort to do and I use my alt for other stuff as well. I'm not sure I'll even mine when I go back to null. Not much of a point when I can do it semi-afk in high-sec with much lower risk.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder

J Kunjeh
#199 - 2012-01-01 14:07:16 UTC
The latest issue of EON has a really good feature piece on how to fix nullsex and there are some great ideas there. One, which I couldn't agree with more, is to make mining once again the most profitable career in nullsex by making Mexallon and one other ore that I can't recall right now available only in null. Hisec production should be reliant on null for these two minerals. We might again see large fleet ops running valuable ore's back up to hisec.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#200 - 2012-01-01 14:46:17 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
The latest issue of EON has a really good feature piece on how to fix nullsex and there are some great ideas there. One, which I couldn't agree with more, is to make mining once again the most profitable career in nullsex by making Mexallon and one other ore that I can't recall right now available only in null. Hisec production should be reliant on null for these two minerals. We might again see large fleet ops running valuable ore's back up to hisec.

Removing certain ores/minerals from highsec is the only way to go imo. Trit and Pyrite only with maybe a little mex. But you can get all but 2 minerals in highsec, should be the other way around imo.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder