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Feedback Request: Radial Menu

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#181 - 2013-05-19 17:03:37 UTC
Galmas wrote:
Mouse is getting slow whenever any radial menu is open. (In space or e.g. on the scanner button)

Also i cannot move the mouse over the whole screen anymore. As if the screen was more narrow than it actually is. In full screen mode.


Confirm that I am having this same problem since I started testing new content on SiSi a couple weeks ago. Pretty radial menus are a no-go for me for the time being.

Is there some sort of specific system/OS data that would be useful to you, CCP Devs?
Naren Vintas
Some Assembly Required.
#182 - 2013-05-20 11:24:55 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Galmas wrote:
Mouse is getting slow whenever any radial menu is open. (In space or e.g. on the scanner button)

Also i cannot move the mouse over the whole screen anymore. As if the screen was more narrow than it actually is. In full screen mode.


Confirm that I am having this same problem since I started testing new content on SiSi a couple weeks ago. Pretty radial menus are a no-go for me for the time being.

Is there some sort of specific system/OS data that would be useful to you, CCP Devs?


It's been already noticed to be tied into how the mouse pointer gets rendered while having Radial Menu open.

Normally, your hardware renders the mouse pointer, regardless of the efficiency of your software (game). However, when Radial Menu gets open, EVE seems to 'take over' the mouse pointer, making it entirely dependant on the game engine, and thus tie into rendering system. And in turn, it gets affected by the game's FPS. The lower FPS you get, the slower the mouse will move while utilizing Radial Menus.

Also, because the game takes over the rendering of the pointer, there seem to be certain limitations as to the area of screen it utilizes. I believe that the system pointer reaches the end of the screen, while the game pointer is still some distance from it, due to FPS lag.

That's just my theory, though. CCP needs to look into their method of rendering and controlling the mouse pointer in Radial Menus.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#183 - 2013-05-20 12:22:48 UTC
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#184 - 2013-05-20 13:28:34 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)

Awesome, can't wait!
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#185 - 2013-05-20 13:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
More feedback, after trying it for a while.

I still can't use it. It's gone from something that I've used every few seconds, to a completely unusable tool that just gets me killed, that I'm going to have to unlearn 8 years of muscle memory in order to use it once more.

Quote:
We are utilizing a schema which makes primary actions on top, navigation on 45°angles, lock/unlock is down and show info is left and Right is more options.


So boarding a ship is more important than locking a target during combat? Planetary Interaction isn't a primary activity when you're being shot at! Then the slot is empty when used on a moon, one of the most common places to warpout.

And another question, why is it so important to move Orbit from the right to the left side? It's been on the top right ever since the original came out. For what reason is there to move it?
There was nothing wrong with Up, Top Right, Right being movement. All you've done is split up the important icons and spread them haphazardly around the circle, and made non-important icons have prominent placing.


Either get customization in, or at the very least an option to have the old icon placement.
Did you ever think about the players that actually used it and preferred the old one? Or did those people just slip your mind?

Surely there can be something for me to not look at with horror in this expansion.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#186 - 2013-05-20 13:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP karkur
Of course we know target is very important, but that's exactly why it's at the bottom... so we can have it for everything and have it in a consistent location Smile
The "primary action" (12 o'clock) is the only option that is changing, so you can just learn and know where all the other options are, and don't need to go look for them depending on what you are acting on Smile

Calling it "primary action" maybe isn't right... it's more of a "action that is important for this entity that is not already in the menu" but I'm not sure that's a very catchy name (although I might be wrong) P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#187 - 2013-05-20 14:10:14 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
The "primary action" (12 o'clock) is the only option that is changing, so you can just learn and know where all the other options are, and don't need to go look for them depending on what you are acting on Smile


Sure. I'll just go unlearn 8 years of play, and rage at the unintuitive positions of the movement icons. Thanks for that. Might as well learn how to play left handed.


I just rage quit after spending a few agonizing hours on the test server trying to use the new menu, so I'm probably more than just a little angry, but there's at least one silver lining!

I know the rest of the expansion can't make me any more miserable than this.



Seriously.
Under 'General Settings', make a 'Radial Menu New/Original' setting.

Don't screw over people that used to use it while trying to impress people that most likely still won't use it.
Strata Maslav
Heretic Army
Divine Damnation
#188 - 2013-05-20 14:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Shade Millith wrote:

Sure. I'll just go unlearn 8 years of play, and rage at the unintuitive positions of the movement icons. Thanks for that. Might as well learn how to play left handed.


Don't be so melodramatic, I am sure it will be second nature after a week or two. I personally want CCP to make the most intuitive menu and I would have to agree with most of the design decisions they are making with this feature.

Having actions in consistent locations is important for allow players to use this menu reflexively so this should take priority over players previous learned habits.
Shade Millith
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#189 - 2013-05-20 14:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Shade Millith
Strata Maslav wrote:

Having actions in consistent locations is important for allow players to use this menu reflexively so this should take priority over players previous learned habits.


It has been consistent. It's always been consistent. It's been consistent for years.

Here's the consistency

http://i.imgur.com/jayl5wH.jpg

How is that not consistent?

Not only that, but why on earth does there need to be two separate places for 'Warp' and 'Approach?' There's no need to have them separate.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#190 - 2013-05-20 17:38:40 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:

Calling it "primary action" maybe isn't right... it's more of a "action that is important for this entity that is not already in the menu" but I'm not sure that's a very catchy name (although I might be wrong) P

call it context sensitive action ;)

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
ISquishWorms
#191 - 2013-05-20 17:46:37 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)


Nice to hear you are working towards a fix for not being able to move the mouse to the right hand edge of the screen.

Any news on the pointer lag fix?

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#192 - 2013-05-20 17:50:24 UTC
ISquishWorms wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)


Nice to hear you are working towards a fix for not being able to move the mouse to the right hand edge of the screen.

Any news on the pointer lag fix?

Just that I have made some changes, but I need to get other people to test them to see if they notice a difference P

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
ISquishWorms
#193 - 2013-05-20 17:52:32 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
ISquishWorms wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)


Nice to hear you are working towards a fix for not being able to move the mouse to the right hand edge of the screen.

Any news on the pointer lag fix?

Just that I have made some changes, but I need to get other people to test them to see if they notice a difference P


Will try them out later and post back on forum with results. Thanks for looking into it. Smile

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#194 - 2013-05-20 17:53:24 UTC
ISquishWorms wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
ISquishWorms wrote:
CCP karkur wrote:
I know exactly why the mouse pointer stops where it does, and it actually has nothing to do with FPS, but does have something to do with the radial menu taking over the pointer :)

I will find some solution to it :)


Nice to hear you are working towards a fix for not being able to move the mouse to the right hand edge of the screen.

Any news on the pointer lag fix?

Just that I have made some changes, but I need to get other people to test them to see if they notice a difference P


Will try them out later and post back on forum with results. Thanks for looking into it. Smile

The changes have not been deployed to Sisi yet, so you won't see any difference there Smile

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
ISquishWorms
#195 - 2013-05-20 18:03:36 UTC
No worries, CCP Karkur. I will try them out soon as they hit the test server.

‘No, this isn't it at all. Make it more... psssshhhh’.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#196 - 2013-05-20 19:26:53 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:

Stop spoiling your players! Say no to something. Evil


NO U!


that's more like it. thanks Blink
Sabre Forza
Forza Technologies
#197 - 2013-05-21 01:20:47 UTC
I like it! I love the ability to set value by distance moved away from center. I never really used the old radial menu so I don't have to unlearn anything. I haven't noticed any performance issues, but I will try to break it next time I get on the test server Twisted
Zeradn
Last Cartographers of Abyss
#198 - 2013-05-21 20:34:35 UTC
Like the new radial menu. Actually usable. I only have one concern at this time. The right click menu has an option for orbiting/keeping range at the current range, which comes after the preset list of ranges. This is really useful for getting traversal immediately, without getting in range. This was especially useful for missile boats, as getting into optimal range is usually not important.

Currently the radial menu has the default orbit/keep range distance on the button, and it moves from 0.5 to 30 km as we drag the mouse further. It would be helpful to add the current range to the end of this drag-menu, so that dragging in the correct direction will cause the ship to orbit/keep range at the current range. Please consider this as this could be a really useful option to have.

PS: I just skimmed the dev posts and didn't see any mention about this, so just assumed no one has mentioned it till now. If any one has already mentioned this, please forgive me for the repost or consider it a support for their cause.
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#199 - 2013-05-21 21:57:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost Hamster
Using the radial menu and use it to warp to a specific distance is hard, almost impossible. Doubt that in a high adrenalin situation you can use it properly.
So don't dare to remove the proper NORMAL menu.

Edit: Actually the best would be that any distance setting in that menu is removed completely.
So it would support warp to 0, and nothing else.
Orbit would only work for a FIX distance. no distance setup needed.

Keep it simple.
Shiuri
#200 - 2013-05-22 14:48:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shiuri
I revisited the menu this morning and I'll just reiterate what I've said in the Dev blog feedback thread.

Please consider rotating the menu 45 degrees clockwise, putting the navigation buttons and their drag-out functionality along flat planes. It would make for much more natural mouse movements when performing such tasks and makes more sense considering that you guys are hell-bent on scattering the navigation buttons all over the place.

E: This also moves the "Primary Stupid Action" button out of the top slot, making it less likely to be clicked by mistake.

E2: Two things I noticed this morning playing around:
- The loot primary action button does not work in the latest iteration. At least, it doesn't work on convoy wrecks.
- Drag-out functionality needs to accommodate the edge of the screen. When I drag to the edge of the screen I can't set the distance past the edge of the screen, which is a problem when using the menu on an item at the top of the overview (for instance).