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Clarification on Electus Matari actions in Federation space today

First post
Author
Gottii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2013-05-11 16:15:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Gottii
Rodj Blake wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
An illegal order is one which does not need to be obeyed.

This is something that the Electus Matari chose to ignore.


So you'll be disobeying orders from your authorities if you feel them to be illegal then Blake? Oh wait, that can't happen in your Empire since all orders come from your god and are vetted by the Theology Council, right? Roll


I ask you to cast your mind back several years to when fleets led by myself assisted in the bringing to justice of an Imperial heir who had issued illegal orders to his forces.

You see, the Empire has a complex system of checks and balances to ensure that it's difficult for people to overstep their authority, and when they do they are chastised accordingly.

This is different to the Republic, which is increasingly adopting a system of "What Shakor says, goes"


Indeed, the Empire has many checks and balances to ensure that its laws and traditions are respected.

Traditions such as Godflesh. I'm sure all would agree such laws are sacrosanct, even to one such as the Empress.
Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#102 - 2013-05-11 16:39:40 UTC
Gottii wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
Nick Bete wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
An illegal order is one which does not need to be obeyed.

This is something that the Electus Matari chose to ignore.


So you'll be disobeying orders from your authorities if you feel them to be illegal then Blake? Oh wait, that can't happen in your Empire since all orders come from your god and are vetted by the Theology Council, right? Roll


I ask you to cast your mind back several years to when fleets led by myself assisted in the bringing to justice of an Imperial heir who had issued illegal orders to his forces.

You see, the Empire has a complex system of checks and balances to ensure that it's difficult for people to overstep their authority, and when they do they are chastised accordingly.

This is different to the Republic, which is increasingly adopting a system of "What Shakor says, goes"


Indeed, the Empire has many checks and balances to ensure that its laws and traditions are respected.

Traditions such as Godflesh. I'm sure all would agree such laws are sacrosanct, even to one such as the Empress.


It appears Minmatar, among some other heathens do not agree, yet. But I trust that was not your point? Rather it was to make some wild accusations against the current holder of the Imperial Throne, with no evidence to back them, correct?

Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#103 - 2013-05-11 18:50:56 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:

On to the sublime:

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I voice my disagreement with the Federal decisions, but if it is my call, I will not start a war over them.


and

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I made a choice to follow the chain of command


Emphasis in the original oh dear Heavens it doesn't get better than that... all right, three of my Sebboi Plushies are better than that, but just barely. Tears of joy.


You do realize those two statements are not actually contradictory, right?


It was "her call" whether to fire. She called it. Contradiction established. Weasel around all you want, dear. The more you do, the more times I get to observe that even an alliance of halfwits doesn't add up to a full wit.
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#104 - 2013-05-11 19:45:20 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
Gosakumori Noh wrote:

On to the sublime:

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I voice my disagreement with the Federal decisions, but if it is my call, I will not start a war over them.


and

Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I made a choice to follow the chain of command


Emphasis in the original oh dear Heavens it doesn't get better than that... all right, three of my Sebboi Plushies are better than that, but just barely. Tears of joy.


You do realize those two statements are not actually contradictory, right?


It was "her call" whether to fire. She called it. Contradiction established. Weasel around all you want, dear. The more you do, the more times I get to observe that even an alliance of halfwits doesn't add up to a full wit.



She did not say that she would not fire at all. She said she would not fire the shot that starts a war, and she did not fire that shot, even if a war does indeed start.

Simply put, it was not her call whether or not a war occurs. Therefore, her choice to follow orders is not contradictory to "If it is my call, I will not start a war over them."
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#105 - 2013-05-11 19:56:35 UTC
I feel silly even explaining this, but my "if it is my call" in the first one I meant simply that if I will be the one making the decisions, I will not start wars. I hope it is obvious that of my own volition, I would not have gone to Colelie (or anywhere else in Federal space) and started firing at Federal Navy.

The Republic Fleet did, however, and at that point it was no longer "my call", but theirs: a call I chose to respond to.
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#106 - 2013-05-11 20:11:53 UTC
Amarrians crapping up an EM thread and casting accusations and insults....

So, business as usual, then?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#107 - 2013-05-11 20:41:56 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
The Republic Fleet did, however, and at that point it was no longer "my call", but theirs: a call I chose to respond to.


A weaseling distinction without a difference, doll. It was your call, and you made it. In making it, you not only choose not to take up Midular's mantle of "Rise Above, Move Beyond" (tangent: has little "shaman" sweet pea found the spiritual message in that, yet?) but in fact to tear it into shreds. How appropriate, all things considered.

Let's face it: you and your hypocritical band of halfwits just wanted to blow things up. Nothing wrong with that, dear. Happens all the time. You'd have been better off admitting as much from the start. These rationalizations are taking you a bit out of your depth.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#108 - 2013-05-11 21:36:33 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:
Amarrians crapping up an EM thread and casting accusations and insults....

So, business as usual, then?


If you start a public discussion, then you can't complain when the public get involved.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#109 - 2013-05-12 06:27:12 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
The Republic Fleet did, however, and at that point it was no longer "my call", but theirs: a call I chose to respond to.


A weaseling distinction without a difference, doll. It was your call, and you made it. In making it, you not only choose not to take up Midular's mantle of "Rise Above, Move Beyond" (tangent: has little "shaman" sweet pea found the spiritual message in that, yet?) but in fact to tear it into shreds. How appropriate, all things considered.

Let's face it: you and your hypocritical band of halfwits just wanted to blow things up. Nothing wrong with that, dear. Happens all the time. You'd have been better off admitting as much from the start. These rationalizations are taking you a bit out of your depth.


I'll say this one last time, though I doubt it'll succeed at getting into that vapid brain of yours...

The call to potentially "start a war" was made by the Republic Fleet, not by Ms Rhiannon. Her statement that she would not make the call to start a war simply does not apply to the events of that day or the decision she did make.


Now, please, stop trying to sound intelligent and just...go back to your boytoys or something.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#110 - 2013-05-12 23:47:49 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
I'll say this one last time, though I doubt it'll succeed at getting into that vapid brain of yours....


Your insipid, mealy-mouthed rationalizations only serve to provide me with additional opportunities to point out that Electus Matari is a Band of Hypocritical Halfwits. How is it possible that you haven't figured that out yet? Ah, yes. You're an idiot, too.

Kind of a thing with you lot, eh?
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#111 - 2013-05-13 18:06:24 UTC
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
Katarina Musana wrote:
I'll say this one last time, though I doubt it'll succeed at getting into that vapid brain of yours....


Your insipid, mealy-mouthed rationalizations only serve to provide me with additional opportunities to point out that Electus Matari is a Band of Hypocritical Halfwits. How is it possible that you haven't figured that out yet? Ah, yes. You're an idiot, too.

Kind of a thing with you lot, eh?


Oh look, my prediction was right. It didn't get into that vapid little brain of yours.

The only opportunities I'm giving you are opportunities to show you've no idea what you're talking about and just like stringing assorted insults together and pretending they make you look halfway intelligent. I must admit, though, I am impressed with how exhaustive your thesaurus program is.

Frankly, dear, someone needs to take you over their knee and teach you some manners.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#112 - 2013-05-13 21:42:49 UTC
My advice to those of you who have better things to do than waste your time and brain cells wading through Noh's frequent brain barfs; under her hideous portrait is a small triangle. Clicking on it will give you a list of options, one of which is 'Hide Posts'.

This feature has saved me a lot of time and scrolling as I no longer see her ignorant provocations, nor those of a few other of the usual suspects.

Hope this little tip helps!

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#113 - 2013-05-13 23:46:20 UTC
Katarina Musana wrote:
Oh look, my prediction was right. It didn't get into that vapid little brain of yours.


Oh look, a little moron whose last response wasn't. Followed immediately by that *other* little moron whose last response never is. You remind me of someone else, though... someone in a more theologically pure organization.

Hmmm.
Dame Death
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2013-07-02 10:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dame Death
I was planet side and out of contact at this time, So forgive me if this has been answered before, but I have a Tactical question.

The Moros Class Dreadnaughts do Outclass our Nagfler class, but they have a weakness the Nag does not, why was there no "Nuet" fit battleships on standby to shut down the Moros's, or is it Mori, offensive capability?
Dame Death
Black Aces
Goonswarm Federation
#115 - 2013-07-02 11:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dame Death
On annother note, I must say EM has regained my respect.

We all get fracked up orders, but as warriors and soldiers "Ours not to make reply, Ours not to question why, ours but to do and die" The fact no EM balked from these orders, makes me think the Matari have hope yet.,

And before people start flaming, and assuming otherwise I have never disobeyed a Order, I have resigned my commission rather then follow one, but never disobeyed.


As for Illegal orders Mr Blake, Must I bring up some from my time under the Empire? Some of which was relayed by you intact.


Eliza "Dame Death" Mariska
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#116 - 2013-07-02 15:39:55 UTC
Dame Death wrote:

The Moros Class Dreadnaughts do Outclass our Nagfler class, but they have a weakness the Nag does not, why was there no "Nuet" fit battleships on standby to shut down the Moros's, or is it Mori, offensive capability?


The previous tensions saw many battleships brought out by the Navies. I think it was believed that the second time that fleet movements were reporting that more battleships were being mobilized. It wasn't until the fleets were on the field that it was realized that both sides escalated to dreads. By then, the battle was joined. And it was over before proper reshipping could be done.

Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2013-07-02 20:31:00 UTC
Dame Death wrote:

The Moros Class Dreadnaughts do Outclass our Nagfler class, but they have a weakness the Nag does not, why was there no "Nuet" fit battleships on standby to shut down the Moros's, or is it Mori, offensive capability?


The Republic fleet was not equipped for the battle they engaged in.

Why then, did they engage?

That is the 50,000 isk question.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#118 - 2013-07-03 06:56:25 UTC
Dame Death wrote:



As for Illegal orders Mr Blake, Must I bring up some from my time under the Empire? Some of which was relayed by you intact.


I don't recall ever ordering you to do anything major, and if I did your loyalties are so volatile that you probably would have disobeyed anyway regardless of the legality, morality or practicality of the command.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#119 - 2013-07-03 12:41:53 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
The Republic fleet was not equipped for the battle they engaged in.

Why then, did they engage?

That is the 50,000 isk question.

Because they had orders from "the top".

That "the top" is likely an angry, bitter, belligerent and blind old man who has done similar things on a larger scale should be no surprise to anyone.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#120 - 2013-07-03 18:19:10 UTC
Dame Death wrote:
We all get fracked up orders, but as warriors and soldiers "Ours not to make reply, Ours not to question why, ours but to do and die..."

For common soldiers, yes. For officers, no.

In what bizarre world is a fleet commander expected to unquestioningly follow orders?

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.