Intergalactic Summit

You sure talk a lot, Cypher.

Have you noticed, when you read the news, that Shakor never said anything about the Federation not sharing information about the investigation or the shooter? No, I never noticed that, either. Shakor issued a demand for Midular to be moved to a Republic hospital (which was met) and a demand that the shooter to be extradited (which was not), but he never complained that the Federation wasn't sharing information. I think your complaint here is that the Federation wasn't sharing information with you, and that's an entirely different issue.

Earlier you mentioned that, if the Federation was smart, it would understand the battle in the context which you assume it took place in, otherwise they would lose an ally. Speaking personally, I think the Republic under the Shakor administration has shown exactly what kind of ally it is, and the Federation would be far better off without them.

Here's a bit of context for you: I've despised slavery for my entire life. I've supported the Minmatar Republic. Hell, I've flown with Electus Matari in the past. In the course of one hour-long battle and the very loud justifications for it that followed, my long-term support has been completely lost. I have gone from a supporter of the Republic and a proponent of Federation/Republic relations to what I am now: convinced that the Federation would be far better off without the Republic. I understand your pleas to have the battle considered in terms of its cultural context, but you have to understand all of the context. I am not the only Federation citizen by far to feel this way. That is how bad Colelie was.

Maybe Kybernetes is right about you lot.

Three weeks of foolish mishandling by the Federal government justifies the Republic sending in a capital fleet and murdering tens of thousands of their oldest allies' citizens? Are you insane? In what world does a just and honorable ally do this? There's no excuse for such an atrocity and it makes this whole situation even more tragic than it was before the incident in Coleile.

Start acting like a friend? You mean the kind of friend which actually acts like a friend or the kind the Republic is acting like?

Mind you, this is coming from a Gallentean fighting for the Minmatar in the militia wars. Just imagine how much more enraged the Gallente not so deeply invested in this alliance are.

See bold.

No it wouldn't justify that.

But let me ask you this, does a Republic fleet in Federation space justify a Federation "get off my lawn" armed response?

If they showed up and started shooting Fed citizens, I would say that's wrong.

But they sat there, vociferously as they please, demanding access to the suspect.

I'd be interested to know who fired the first salvo.

What I'm seeing in this thread is a tendency towards legalities and technicalities like the Yulai accords, but zero human empathy, zero understanding.

It's like showing up at a friend's house, and they shoot you, and you say it's ok because you're on their property.

Where's the love?

I'm heavily invested in the Federation, haven't been involved in Minmatar politics for a long time. Look at my profile photo, I paid 800 mil for that shirt, you know why? Because I'm a Quafe-a-holic.

It irks the hell out of me, that even after many years of cross-cultural pursuits, mixed fleets, naval execises, a united front - the presence of a minnie fleet still causes Fed citizens to run for the safe-room and hit 911.

These two fleets shouldn't even lock each other, much less shoot.

Why it it that null sov entities set each other blue, but those two fleets weren't blue.

The Republic fleet fired first on the Federals after yet another attempt to violate our sovereignty and forcefully extradite the shooter. So yes, the Republic is in the wrong there. They entered into allied space and started murdering people when they were denied their request. That's barbaric. Despite the Federals offering several times to allow the Republicans to fall back and cease hostilities, the Minmatar just kept right on murdering allied citizens until the last one of them was put down.

Regarding the "get off my lawn" comment, yes, that's kind of how countries work. When you step over the boundaries of a sovereign state with a large force, they are entitled to respond in kind.

I do agree that it's ridiculous that this situation ever came to this however. It shows an astonishingly large amount of incompetence on the part of both governments.

edit: Here's the link to the report of the battle
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/republic-fleet-force-destroyed-entering-federation-despite-capsuleer-pleas-for-peace/

And yet public records show that I didn't start shooting Republic Militia until after Colelie. Funny, that.

For the record, by the way, I said I was a supporter of the Republic, not a supporter of the Federation. An examination of my past employment records as well as statements made should make that clear.

I understand that you may not "get" how I can be angry in the case of Colelie, yet be satisfied at having worked with State-affiliated agencies. It's really a matter of intent. I've declared my intention to shoot the Federation Militia (and now the Republic Militia). I'm registered with CONCORD as intending to do that. Said militia pilots see me on their overviews with an angry red star. There's no way that they can be surprised by my firing upon them. The Republic Fleet, on the other hand, opened fire on allies (and yes, in answer to your question about who fired first, the Republic Fleet fired first) apparently on a whim. They sidled up to their ally and and slid a knife in their back, and in doing so they lost any moral high ground they may have held.

I never claimed it was a surprise attack. I think everyone involved knew that it would come to blows, as you pointed out. It wasn't a surprise. Unwarranted attack by the Republic Fleet without declaration of war? Yes. Surprise? No.

No, Ms. Adrelana. The Republic had been trying to negotiate and arrange a compromise the ever since the Federation's court refused extradition. The Gallente refused all attempts at negotiation and compromise.

And it was hardly an immediate thing. Quite a bit of time had already passed between the denial of extradition and the events at Colelie.

Since I wasn't personally privy to the negotiations, i can't comment on just how thorough and complete they were, but they were going on, and what we have been told so far is that the Tribal Council had determined that negotiation was not going to succeed.

Three weeks?
In diplo terms that's barely enough time to get your feet under the table and start eyeing up the aides. Processes like this take months with all kinds of hearings, discussions and intel gathering. Not to mention back room dealings, power playing and agendas of various kinds. Part of this is largely intentional, so that by the time the diplos have made their verdict, the public can be braced to accept an unpopular decision largely because public interest has moved on to other things. Its also so that the diplos can take each other out to dinner and build rapport which can then be used as diplomatic capital when it comes to making agreements not just now but in the future. But in short, three weeks is not enough time for the diplos to do their thing.

I would actually believe that the Feds did fire first...just that the Republic's weapons tend to land first.