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The Battle of Colelie
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MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#61 - 2013-05-09 10:12:34 UTC
I know the Naglfar design was slightly improved recently, but firing first on a numerically equal force of Moros at their optimal range is just madness.

As is, in fact, the whole situation. Nationalism is such a flawed notion; we are human.

Personally I would see the shooter sent to Yulai.

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#62 - 2013-05-09 12:09:34 UTC
Korsavius wrote:

I think Master Sansha needs to tweak your neural implants a bit. You seem to be displaying a larger-than-normal level of poor manners in comparison to your ilk. After all, with such a demeanor I doubt people would find Nation appealing!


What 'appeals' to the average Capsuleer is stomach churning and nightmare inducing.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-05-09 13:02:20 UTC

We have enough enemies in the universe to start shooting each other.

C7
Katarina Musana
Clan Leshya Offworld Venture Enterprise
#64 - 2013-05-09 15:54:29 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
The greatest irony of our time. Fire at me in Colelie and your precious CONCORD will vaporize you.


It would be worth a ship loss to stop you from enslaving more people.
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
#65 - 2013-05-09 16:11:57 UTC
I haven't seen this mentioned yet but I also find out very odd that there was radio silence on the Minmattar fleet for the latter half of the battle, as the Naglfar fought to the death. Does anyone else find this odd?
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#66 - 2013-05-09 19:42:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Does anyone have logs of the communications between the Republic and Federation fleets? I am very interested in seeing them as I've heard rumours that the Gallente were not very diplomatic.

Edit: I have received the logs.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#67 - 2013-05-19 08:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Some images from the camera drones from that horrible day, if anybody is interested.

One, Two, Three, Four

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#68 - 2013-05-19 10:06:20 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
Does anyone have logs of the communications between the Republic and Federation fleets? I am very interested in seeing them as I've heard rumours that the Gallente were not very diplomatic.

Edit: I have received the logs.



A fleet of large warships invades your territory and starts making demands.

Would you be diplomatic?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#69 - 2013-05-19 10:24:52 UTC
I have spent half of my career in space being diplomatic to people who opened fire on me or allies. Often, I have managed to convince them to cease hostilities altogether or leave Republic territory.

Your point is?

Elsebeth
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#70 - 2013-05-19 15:36:00 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
I have spent half of my career in space being diplomatic to people who opened fire on me or allies. Often, I have managed to convince them to cease hostilities altogether or leave Republic territory.

And you destroyed your reputation for diplomacy when you took part in an illegal and immoral assault on Gallentean territory without first exploring other options.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-05-19 17:08:24 UTC

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."

If it was real invasion, they would not jump 15 dred into Colleile, they would be alot more tactical, hit and run, cut supply lines etc.

This battle was ceremonial, for honor and to make a statement.

The Naglfar crews knew they were in inferior tactical position. They did not expect to win.

They martyr themselves, as Ray of Matar fedayeen.

And the Gallente go "duh why did they invade us."

This was not a hostile act, from certain point of view within the tribes. The "moderm" factions in the Republic will be horrified, but the traditionalists will say "It's just a ceremony, it needed to be done for honor."

It's just part of the old ways, that many won't understand.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-05-19 17:09:04 UTC
Aynen wrote:
I haven't seen this mentioned yet but I also find out very odd that there was radio silence on the Minmattar fleet for the latter half of the battle, as the Naglfar fought to the death. Does anyone else find this odd?


Nope

Read my explanation just above this one.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#73 - 2013-05-19 17:42:10 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-05-19 17:57:04 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.


I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#75 - 2013-05-19 19:01:07 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.


I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.


They didn't get the shooter.

How did they accomplish their purpose?

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#76 - 2013-05-19 19:05:44 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.


I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.

The real horror is that he may be correct in his assessment.

We hear allot of, “you don’t understand our culture”, “you don’t respect our ways”. Perhaps those in the former Republic should listen to their own advice.

Proponents of Gallentean civilization must learn that generosity and benevolence often breeds resentment in the beneficiary.

Minmatar culture, especially the variant that expresses itself in the former Republic, has become nothing more than a cliche, that has devolved into a self entitled cult of perpetual victim-hood.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#77 - 2013-05-19 20:27:53 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
And you destroyed your reputation for diplomacy when you took part in an illegal and immoral assault on Gallentean territory without first exploring other options.

To do or not do diplomacy on that one was not my call.

However, I admit to a failure in convincing people with words in that my attempts to talk sense into the commanders on both sides were completely in vain.

It does not unfortunately work every time. Not even with the independents I usually work with. I'd say the success rate is closer to 1 or 2 in 10.

Elsebeth
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-05-19 21:39:27 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.


I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.


They didn't get the shooter.

How did they accomplish their purpose?


They came to make a statement, and they made it.
Cipher7
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2013-05-19 21:51:41 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."


Of course. It was just a Courier mission for Pator Tech School gone horribly awry.


I wouldn't say it went awry.

They accomplished their purpose.

The real horror is that he may be correct in his assessment.

We hear allot of, “you don’t understand our culture”, “you don’t respect our ways”. Perhaps those in the former Republic should listen to their own advice.

Proponents of Gallentean civilization must learn that generosity and benevolence often breeds resentment in the beneficiary.

Minmatar culture, especially the variant that expresses itself in the former Republic, has become nothing more than a cliche, that has devolved into a self entitled cult of perpetual victim-hood.


I don't know what this gobbledy-crap means.

We don't need benefits, we need justice.

As so often thru history "justice" has become "just us."
Shintoko Akahoshi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-05-19 23:46:04 UTC
Cipher7 wrote:

The Gallente will erroneously see this as "invasion."

If it was real invasion, they would not jump 15 dred into Colleile, they would be alot more tactical, hit and run, cut supply lines etc.

This battle was ceremonial, for honor and to make a statement.

The Naglfar crews knew they were in inferior tactical position. They did not expect to win.

They martyr themselves, as Ray of Matar fedayeen.

And the Gallente go "duh why did they invade us."

This was not a hostile act, from certain point of view within the tribes. The "moderm" factions in the Republic will be horrified, but the traditionalists will say "It's just a ceremony, it needed to be done for honor."


This is some of the most ludicrous drivel I've ever read. It's obvious that, while you sit there in your armchair complaining that the Federation (not the Gallente, but the Federation, let's be precise here) doesn't understand the Republic, that you show a failure to understand the Federation that is equally as great.

If this was not a hostile act, then what was it? If it was not an invasion in miniature, then what was it? A statement? That's the excuse that terrorists always trot out to justify their acts. Is that how the Federation should view this? Are you sure that's what you want? The Federation doesn't exactly have the best record of responding proportionally to acts of terrorism - I mean to violence for symbolic purposes.

How should the Federation respond to this? I'm curious to know what you think. Now that the Republic has "made a statement", how should the Federation respond? To the tens of thousands of Federation citizens killed in the attack? How should the families of those citizens respond? How should their friends respond?

If you're suggesting the Republic wanted to make a statement, I'd say that they were successful. However, I don't thin that statement meant what they thought it meant.

Cipher, I would like to meet you some day. I would like to sit you down, and buy you a drink, and tell you a story about a friend of mine who was killed at Colelie. Then I would like to slap your face and never speak to you again. I'm sure you understand, I merely want to make a statement.

Bio and writing

(Nothing I say is indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated)