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CCPs Miners are "Clay Pidgeons" mentality
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Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-05-08 17:46:23 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Krax As wrote:
hm
first of all , like others said it before, time and time again: whats fun for you and maybe others

with this idea in mind, lets take a look at the numbers: according to ccp, about 75% of people live in highsec, the rest in 0.0 and lowsec.


CCP has never released information implying anything like that.

The survey you're talking about showed that around 75-80% of Characters lived in HS. It said nothing of Accounts, let alone People, because that would be effectively impossible to count without sending mails to every account. (Most of the Characters I own live in HS full time. I consider myself to live in LS/0.0, depending on deployment.)



characters, accounts, people. who the frak cares.

fun fact: the chances of dind deserted systems in empire is close to 0%, while in some areas in 0.0 you dont even meet one guy in a whole constellation. so whatever it is: people, accounts or toons,.. there are not enough in 0.0 to exactly call it bustling with activity.
and why is that ?

well, risk vs. reward is one thing.
metagaming and having to endure crap politics and all that stuff is certainly another.
sov mechanics, another one.
then some stupid attitude that keeps pooping up again and again, that you "have to be kewl enough" to be in 0.0, if you are not like that you are by definition of those peeps, a carebear or even less.

wakepup call: even a monkey can press F1. if it is for mining rocks or blobbing in large fleets doesnt really matter.

give him a a peanut or two , and the monkey, sooner or later, will excel at pressing F1 if he likes peanuts.

anyways, the negatives outweigh the posivites for A LOT of players / toons / accounts. and its not risk / vs reward or max isk/ h for
all of them.
Haulie Berry
#42 - 2013-05-08 18:05:36 UTC
Quote:
characters, accounts, people. who the frak cares.


Er... anyone who is interested in facts?

I have two accounts. Four of my characters never leave high sec. 3 of them haven't even undocked in months. They do things like update orders and install jobs.

A fifth is somewhat more mobile, occasionally hauls things around high sec, functions as a probing alt, lights cynos, etc.

The last one spends almost all of its time in low/null/WH areas. This is the character I use for the bulk of my playtime.

So, 5/6 of my characters are almost always in high sec, but as a player, I'm almost never in high sec. Thus, the distinction is important, even if you're too stupid to understand why without having it meticulously spelled out in crayola.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#43 - 2013-05-09 18:02:49 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:


Er... anyone who is interested in facts?

I have two accounts. Four of my characters never leave high sec. 3 of them haven't even undocked in months. They do things like update orders and install jobs.

A fifth is somewhat more mobile, occasionally hauls things around high sec, functions as a probing alt, lights cynos, etc.

The last one spends almost all of its time in low/null/WH areas. This is the character I use for the bulk of my playtime.

So, 5/6 of my characters are almost always in high sec, but as a player, I'm almost never in high sec. Thus, the distinction is important, even if you're too stupid to understand why without having it meticulously spelled out in crayola.


Sounds more like an anecdote then a fact
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Haulie Berry
#44 - 2013-05-09 18:42:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
DarthNefarius wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:


Er... anyone who is interested in facts?

I have two accounts. Four of my characters never leave high sec. 3 of them haven't even undocked in months. They do things like update orders and install jobs.

A fifth is somewhat more mobile, occasionally hauls things around high sec, functions as a probing alt, lights cynos, etc.

The last one spends almost all of its time in low/null/WH areas. This is the character I use for the bulk of my playtime.

So, 5/6 of my characters are almost always in high sec, but as a player, I'm almost never in high sec. Thus, the distinction is important, even if you're too stupid to understand why without having it meticulously spelled out in crayola.


Sounds more like an anecdote then a fact


As it pertains to the difference between a "character" and a "person", it is, in fact, a fact that characters and players are separate and distinct things.

If it were a statement regarding the quantification of how many people are in each area of space, it would be an anecdote, but it wasn't that - it was an illustration that there is a huge difference between characters and players.

You should spend less time trying to present yourself as smarter than you actually are. I've noticed that it rarely plays out well for you, and typically showcases a fairly massive inability to read and comprehend.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#45 - 2013-05-10 13:10:17 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:


Er... anyone who is interested in facts?

I have two accounts. Four of my characters never leave high sec. 3 of them haven't even undocked in months. They do things like update orders and install jobs.

A fifth is somewhat more mobile, occasionally hauls things around high sec, functions as a probing alt, lights cynos, etc.

The last one spends almost all of its time in low/null/WH areas. This is the character I use for the bulk of my playtime.

So, 5/6 of my characters are almost always in high sec, but as a player, I'm almost never in high sec. Thus, the distinction is important, even if you're too stupid to understand why without having it meticulously spelled out in crayola.


Sounds more like an anecdote then a fact


As it pertains to the difference between a "character" and a "person", it is, in fact, a fact that characters and players are separate and distinct things.

If it were a statement regarding the quantification of how many people are in each area of space, it would be an anecdote, but it wasn't that - it was an illustration that there is a huge difference between characters and players.

You should spend less time trying to present yourself as smarter than you actually are. I've noticed that it rarely plays out well for you, and typically showcases a fairly massive inability to read and comprehend.



the hate keeps us warm Twisted

Thank me later :D
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#46 - 2013-05-11 13:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyrrashae
What is this, I don't even...

E:

Stop shouting OP, it's just grating.

Ni.
Mr Hoffa
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2013-05-12 19:45:57 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
Mining could never be fun because pvp would become hello kitty online then.

But if by mining in LS-null you get income 2x or 3x better than HS some nullsec players might move their mining alts to null. But currently differences between mining in null and HS are like 1,2x or so. That is not motivating enough. We'll see after odyssey changes.



That might be enough, but 1.24x is not.
Clansworth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-05-13 09:27:03 UTC
I spent a number of years mining in null. It was enjoyable, and we did it in fleets, with protection, boost, miners, and hauling. But it took organization, and enough of a presence to keep an eye on things.

Now that I don't have as much playtime available, I can't spend the time to organize those types of operations, or even keep up with a null-sec corp/alliance, so now I numbingly mine away in high-sec mission sites. I still enjoy it, but I do wish there were some improvements in the act of mining itself. Give me asteroids with multiple ores in them, and force me to load juts the right crystals to maximize the yield. Make the survey scanner actually USEFUL by tagging the overview with the quantity instead of the separate window. Share this survey info with fleets (as any real industrial outfit would do).

Little things to make managing a mining fleet easier/more interesting, would get more people to fleet up. As more people fleet up, they may feel safer in numbers to go find more dangerous lodes.
Eden Deninard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-05-14 18:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Eden Deninard
Am I the only one who realizes that anything you do to make isk is supposed to be means to an end? CCP has said so, people who know how to play this game know so.

Whether it's missioning, mining, spreadsheeting the hell out of jita ,or whatever else you do to make isk, they are all tedious activities. You are supposed to grind.

This game is all about PvP, It's where this game truly shines. Of course being a sandbox, it's whatever you want to do. But ideally you make isk to get your stupid-ass frigate blown up and repeat that process again. While collecting isk is a legitimate "end-game" goal, there is only so much you can accumulate before you burn out and have nothing else to do.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#50 - 2013-05-14 20:25:43 UTC
Mhax Arthie wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.

In my second day of EVE trial I lost my only ship, the hard earned Catalyst. At that time it was my only ship, a dream ship. You know who poped it? A fukin Iteron 5!!! It's not a freighter, but still...

And by the way, when you see a Venture in a belt, align and warm up the engines. Even in hi sec.



....how.....

....what.....

the hell?

.........

*snickers*

seriously? I want to see that killmail.

Yes, let's totally nerf the Iteron V. it's single turret makes it far, far too powerful.

Seriously, how did a ship with room for EIGHT guns die to a ship with ONE?

that's ******* hilarious
Lord Battlestar
CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
Atrox Urbanis Respublique Abundatia
#51 - 2013-05-14 20:37:35 UTC
Miners are just way overreacting. 90% of the miners who die, do so because they are **** fit. I can't tell you how many times I look on killboards and see macks fit with just a survey scanner, no tank whatsoever. A friend of mine has gotten his Mack to get 43k ehp, maybe it might not be the most strongest tank and it doesn't mine as fast, but it will survive a decent sized gank. CCP isn't making you guys into clay pigeons, mining with no brain is. Heck you can get a skiff easily up to 100k+ ehp, and still get decent mining capabilities. Don't blame CCP because most miners are too lazy to tank their ships halfway decently.

I once podded myself by blowing a huge fart.
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-05-14 21:48:37 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
seriously? I want to see that killmail.

Yes, let's totally nerf the Iteron V. it's single turret makes it far, far too powerful.

Seriously, how did a ship with room for EIGHT guns die to a ship with ONE?

You are looking for the "Iteron of Doom". Basically, neut out the opponent and gnaw them down to size and hope that the duct tape holds out long enough.

Sample fit:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/26253-Iteron-Mark-V-THE-BEST-PVP-Industrial.html

Sample battle narrative:
http://zedrikcayne.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-return-of-itty-of-doom.html
(has some kill board links)
Danni stark
#53 - 2013-05-14 22:46:30 UTC
Lord Battlestar wrote:
Miners are just way overreacting. 90% of the miners who die, do so because they are **** fit. I can't tell you how many times I look on killboards and see macks fit with just a survey scanner, no tank whatsoever. A friend of mine has gotten his Mack to get 43k ehp, maybe it might not be the most strongest tank and it doesn't mine as fast, but it will survive a decent sized gank. CCP isn't making you guys into clay pigeons, mining with no brain is. Heck you can get a skiff easily up to 100k+ ehp, and still get decent mining capabilities. Don't blame CCP because most miners are too lazy to tank their ships halfway decently.


and i'll wager a skiff will both out mine and out tank his mackinaw. as soon as you stop putting 3x mlus on a mackinaw you have no business being in one, you should be in a skiff.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#54 - 2013-05-15 01:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Krax As wrote:

fun fact: the chances of dind deserted systems in empire is close to 0%, while in some areas in 0.0 you dont even meet one guy in a whole constellation. so whatever it is: people, accounts or toons,.. there are not enough in 0.0 to exactly call it bustling with activity.
and why is that ?


... which is why, from 2007 to 2011, Nullsec saw nearly 4 times as many ships destroyed in PVP as HS?

Or this chart which shows the PvP activity in LS/0.0 dwarfing that of HS?

The reason for Nullsec's lumpy distribution of Characters is that some systems are literally not worth setting up shop in, because HS is better for anything you can do there. And that's a problem that hopefully CCP will be fixing.

Quote:
well, risk vs. reward is one thing.
metagaming and having to endure crap politics and all that stuff is certainly another.
sov mechanics, another one.


Sov Null is the cooperative part of EVE. Where you have to organize and cooperate with other people. If you don't enjoy that, there's NPC Null, LS, WH space, or HS for you.

You also run a much higher risk of losing your ship in Nullsec than you do in HS. (See the Above 4 to 1 ratio of PvP kills, despite the far lower character population)

Quote:
then some stupid attitude that keeps pooping up again and again, that you "have to be kewl enough" to be in 0.0, if you are not like that you are by definition of those peeps, a carebear or even less.


I have literally never seen that attitude in the alliances I've been in. You do have to be "willing to help the people you've chosen to throw your lot in with" which is generally incompatible with ratting 24/7, but that ties back into the whole "cooperative" aspect of Sov Null.

Quote:
wakepup call: even a monkey can press F1. if it is for mining rocks or blobbing in large fleets doesnt really matter.


One of those helps keep space. The other collects space rocks to be compressed by Rorqual and refined tax free (as in, avoiding helping the group you're "cooperating" with) in empire.

Quote:
anyways, the negatives outweigh the posivites for A LOT of players / toons / accounts. and its not risk / vs reward or max isk/ h for
all of them.


Never said it was. You claimed that more "people" live in HS than 0.0. It's on you to prove the claim or retract it.

All of your followup claims hinge on that "fact" for which you have provided not one scrap of evidence.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#55 - 2013-05-15 01:12:45 UTC
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Himnos Altar wrote:
seriously? I want to see that killmail.

Yes, let's totally nerf the Iteron V. it's single turret makes it far, far too powerful.

Seriously, how did a ship with room for EIGHT guns die to a ship with ONE?

You are looking for the "Iteron of Doom". Basically, neut out the opponent and gnaw them down to size and hope that the duct tape holds out long enough.

Sample fit:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/26253-Iteron-Mark-V-THE-BEST-PVP-Industrial.html

Sample battle narrative:
http://zedrikcayne.blogspot.com/2012/08/a-return-of-itty-of-doom.html
(has some kill board links)



Try this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6so9AT4UydQ

Full screen and HD for best results.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-05-15 01:14:23 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Lord Battlestar wrote:
Miners are just way overreacting. 90% of the miners who die, do so because they are **** fit. I can't tell you how many times I look on killboards and see macks fit with just a survey scanner, no tank whatsoever. A friend of mine has gotten his Mack to get 43k ehp, maybe it might not be the most strongest tank and it doesn't mine as fast, but it will survive a decent sized gank. CCP isn't making you guys into clay pigeons, mining with no brain is. Heck you can get a skiff easily up to 100k+ ehp, and still get decent mining capabilities. Don't blame CCP because most miners are too lazy to tank their ships halfway decently.


and i'll wager a skiff will both out mine and out tank his mackinaw. as soon as you stop putting 3x mlus on a mackinaw you have no business being in one, you should be in a skiff.


Hi, I'm the guy with the mackinaw referenced above...

The mackinaw after 242.51212 seconds drops 2 units of ice in the mackinaw's ore hold.
The skiff will drop 2 units of ice in the ore hold after 242.54846 seconds. Technically the mackinaw is just a tiny bit faster.

I went with the mackinaw since it has a larger ore hold and it takes a bit over an hour to fill, I mine ice while working from home.

As for out tanking the mackinaw, yes it was noted in Lord Battlestar's post. The fitting we were discussing has an ehp of 112,507. So if youa re worried about ganks, go with a skiff. Heck even a procuror can have a decent tank, at over 80,000 ehp rather easily.
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#57 - 2013-05-15 12:41:46 UTC
Stopped at the whole mining FC with hot pockets nonsense. Just because someone mines does not mean they have a butt ton of alts backing them up with more barges and whatnot. Just because someone mines does not mean they are anti social. Just because someone mines it does not mean they do not have fun chilling, smashing rocks and shooting the breeze.

Different people, different styles of play. Get over it.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-05-15 13:03:05 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
Quote:
characters, accounts, people. who the frak cares.


Er... anyone who is interested in facts?

I have two accounts. Four of my characters never leave high sec. 3 of them haven't even undocked in months. They do things like update orders and install jobs.

A fifth is somewhat more mobile, occasionally hauls things around high sec, functions as a probing alt, lights cynos, etc.

The last one spends almost all of its time in low/null/WH areas. This is the character I use for the bulk of my playtime.

So, 5/6 of my characters are almost always in high sec, but as a player, I'm almost never in high sec. Thus, the distinction is important, even if you're too stupid to understand why without having it meticulously spelled out in crayola.

looks like you misread your fact Lol

you live in WH with 1/6 of your chars. And do high-sec stuff with 4/6 of your chars. Why do you say you are WH player? Yes, you spend more ACTIVE time with WH-char but 4 of your other chars do the stuff for you that WH-char does not. WH-char is logged off, and orders and jobs set by high-sec chars are working and make you money and stuff. You do PvP and spend ISK and ships/stuff which you got from your high-sec characters.

This is very tricky picture. That's why you will NEVER get real picture of player distribution in this game.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Danni stark
#59 - 2013-05-15 13:06:47 UTC
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:
The mackinaw after 242.51212 seconds drops 2 units of ice


dafuq am i reading?
that's abhorrent.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Nahkep Narmelion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-05-15 13:52:20 UTC
Danni stark wrote:
Nahkep Narmelion wrote:
The mackinaw after 242.51212 seconds drops 2 units of ice


dafuq am i reading?
that's abhorrent.


Yeah, I could fit it to maximize yield, but if you look at dead mackinaws they are indeed **** fit when it comes to tank. Most have no tank. Those that do have a half-assed tank and are ganked by 1-2 catalysts. So I go for tank, and since I'm actually working on my laptop, I don't mind that my miners cycle a bit slower. v0v