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CCPs Miners are "Clay Pidgeons" mentality
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Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#1 - 2013-05-06 17:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Ok, I don't know if this is the case internally or not, but it seems to be the way a lot fo people take it and what a good number of people seem to think is the reason, plot, conspiracy, etc.

SO, why don't all the HS miners go, WOW, Low-Sec Ore is better (run to low-sec) and mine, and then say... WOW, Null-Sec Ore is better (and run to null-sec) and mine, and then say WOW!!!... WH Ore is better OMG, and move into WHs and mine...

... and then more destruction and PVP will happen.... right? yes? JaJa? and the people that have played ignore this post since you already know the answer, this is for the new people that don't have a clue yet...

1. Mining in HS = Concord, and ganking and a dynamic that while once in a while ends in boom, there is the satisfaction that someone had to lose their ship(s) how ever insignificant to gank yours... while it's not going to be on par... just knowing that concord will blow them up I think mentally makes it "sort of acceptable" and that is why most people mine in HS... low-impact, low-risk in ships that do a job that ISN'T combat, because these people aren't looking for that adrenaline rush... they want to be left alone to build something, and not be bothered... even by other miners, hence the many alt mining corps with one person. Mining is the ultimate form or solo-"LEAVE ME ALONE GDMIT"-eve play.

2. Fighting in a Mining Ship isn't FUN... so why bother... Its the culmination of everything NOT FUN... and until CCP says, lets make fighting in mining ships FUN (for the miner), mining people will not enjoy and so will not do combat in mining ships... because it is VERY UN-FUN people avoid it. Going from HS to Low and Null = even MORE VERY UN-FUNNESS... etc.

3. Since Mining in places where UN-FUNNESS happens, you can either be a "Pet" or a "renter" and have something like a Concord of sorts kind of watching over you (unless it's drunk or something - "Oh man, sry... I was peeing, damn" a few people do Null Sec Mining, but again since Mining = THE ULTIMATE LEAVE ME ALONE SOLO PLAY OF EVE... most people don't mine in fleets with FCs and all that... I have never seen one, the most I have ever seen is on guy with 10 alts (an probably a microwave and bulk hot-pocket box next to the PC desk) running his Orca and Hulk Blob and eating ore as fast as the hot-pockets... but solo playing.

ANY MINING = NO FUNNESS IN COMBAT... PERIOD... it's just not... it will not be FUN, it has two ways of being... NOMINAL and RAGE... with some sighs and such once in a while. Nominal = vids, chatting, playing another game while your PC mines for you and you look at the LCD once in a while... etc... and stuff hot-pockets into your bloody-gob.

Now, IF, big if - CCP did something to make "Combat Mining" fun... people would do it... but that seems to be impossible, and so people don't do it... simple as that... they have alts to have FUNNESS in combat, and they mine to support that FUNNESS with a mining toon, to mix the two is NOT FUN=no one does it... and since people have another way to access FUN in combat with an alt that is FUN to do COMBAT with, why in god's name would you use something NOT FUN to do combat with... so that is that...

CCP gave each account 3 toons, and it made combat FUN for combat toons, and combat UN-FUN for mining toons... and so nigh the two shall ever meet and both have FUN...

CCP has tried, risk/reward and failed, has tried to rebalance the ships and failed, and so on... failed, failed, failed, to dislodge the HS miner... even punished them for staying in HS against all the forces of hell unleashed on them... and still they will not go! ... why? *as CCP bangs on the steering wheel and screems*... simple: IT'S NOT FUN... period... and people play a game to have fun, not un-fun... when will it be fun? when CCP says, HEY!... lets make it fun (somehow) to mine and be shot at, while unable to shoot back, and then watch all your stuff be blown up and taken and have someone talk to you in local in smack as a topper?... wait that is fun isn't it?... no, not really... it's called ANNOYING... and I don't know, personally ANYONE, that likes to spend time and money on being annoyed... unless that is a fetish I don't know about.

A final note: Lets assume two people are out to do something... one is out at a dinner restuarant, and the other is fixing a toilet at the restaurant... the person having dinner is having FUN... and enjoying the moment, the other person less-so... now how much motivation would you have to give for each person to stop, and eat a big sandwich with their hands... the first person says NOTHING.. LET ME HAVE IT... I WANT IT NOW!!!... and the person with poo on his hands and all disgusting because he is doing something unpleasant is ANNOYED that one he can't enjoy the sandwich atm... and two no inducement is going to make him take a poo-hand and eat with it... unless they are just sick in the head... contemplate this on the tree of woe... hehe.

...So endth the rant...
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2 - 2013-05-06 18:13:10 UTC
Having fun is sooo.. subjective. My idea of mining is being able to get up from my seat anytime I want at a moments notice, mining in HS suits my playstyle. AFK in low, or Null even for a few minutes is a big NO. Even the isk/hour difference between HS and Null is more or less on par. The changes coming, estimate a better income in Null , I am yet to be convinced if its worth the trouble.
Haulie Berry
#3 - 2013-05-06 18:25:47 UTC
Posting in a not-very-stealthy "buff barges" thread. Roll
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#4 - 2013-05-06 18:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Haulie Berry wrote:
Posting in a not-very-stealthy "buff barges" thread. Roll



NOT AT ALL... barges are fine... but they are NOT FUN in combat, I don't know what mining ship COULD be fun, I don't think it is possible personally... my point is that there are two distinct play styles not compatible for both to have FUN... one has FUN, and one doesn't when they cross paths... that is my point...

BUFFing is VERY much NOT my point... if you got that in your head... you need to re-read it, or re-learn english... BUFFING was FAIL, if you read that part... hello? McFly?... are you in there?


Let me put it this way:
A woman is put in a holding cell with a bunch of chainsaw hacking crazies... the guards before they they toss her in give her a industrial sized can of lube and a plastic spork... then slam the door and lock it and say "have FUN"... I think we all can agree that is the last thing she will be having... but I bet the Chainsaw crazies with being having a field day... so endth the crass example that makes the point.
Haulie Berry
#5 - 2013-05-06 19:29:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2013-05-06 20:23:46 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Ok, I don't know if this is the case internally or not, but it seems to be the way alot fo people take it and what alot of people seem to think is the reason, plot, conspiracy, etc.

SO, why don't all the HS miners go, WOW, Low-Sec Ore is better (run to low-sec) and mine, and then say... WOW, Null-Sec Ore is better (and run to null-sec) and mine, and then say WOW!!!... WH Ore is better OMG, and move into WHs and mine...?


Because they're not. The grav sites in 0.0 actually have a lower ISK/m^3 value than some of the hi-sec ores.

This may seem incredible to you, but it's true.

That's what's getting fixed.

And another thing: no one wnats to "drive" you into 0.0. In fact the people in 0.0 want you to stay the hell in hi-sec. Now that their ore is actually worth mining (it's going to be a whole 24% better than yours now!) they want you to keep your dirty hands off their ore because they want it all to themselves.

tl;dr: 0.0 mining was actually worth less than hisec, now it's going to be worth a little more. You can stay right where you are and keep mining.


All good now?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Danni stark
#7 - 2013-05-06 20:34:09 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Because they're not. The grav sites in 0.0 actually have a lower ISK/m^3 value than some of the hi-sec ores.


Due to the recent price drop from the announcements only the sov level 1 and 2 grav sites are worth less isk/m3 than scordite, but that in itself is still an issue that needs addressing, and will be when odyssey hits.

however if trit goes back to 6isk/unit and pyerite back to 15/unit then we'll probably see scordite being worth more than all of the null sec grav sites again, at least until odyssey.

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
Ginger Barbarella
#8 - 2013-05-06 21:23:47 UTC
"alot" isn't a word. You probably meant "a lot" (see how it's two (2) words?), which is kinda ****-poor grammar anyway.

And I didn't read your Wall of Text beyond that first sentence. Something about mining, I'm guessing.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Haven Chipri
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-05-06 21:29:27 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.



I think that's the point to the post. Why have a part of the game exist when it is clearly not fun, and nothing CCP has ever done has or will ever change that? Something needs to be done to make mining fun and enjoyable outside of the few actual small corps who get drunk and play xbox while they have a mining op.
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2013-05-06 23:22:08 UTC
Haven Chipri wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.



I think that's the point to the post. Why have a part of the game exist when it is clearly not fun, and nothing CCP has ever done has or will ever change that? Something needs to be done to make mining fun and enjoyable outside of the few actual small corps who get drunk and play xbox while they have a mining op.


Nearly every current game has mechanics which are not fun, but are a means to an end. They all have grinds to keep people playing and paying for the game. Eve has mining, grinding sec status, working the market, FW plexing, etc. Mining is simply a means to an end, it's not really meant to be enjoyable, and there's nothing they could do that would make it enjoyable for everyone.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#11 - 2013-05-06 23:37:22 UTC
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=17493969

Looks like fun to me.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2013-05-06 23:49:04 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
"alot" isn't a word. You probably meant "a lot" (see how it's two (2) words?), which is kinda ****-poor grammar anyway.

Can't resist: The Alot is better than you at everything
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#13 - 2013-05-06 23:57:08 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
"alot" isn't a word. You probably meant "a lot" (see how it's two (2) words?), which is kinda ****-poor grammar anyway.

Can't resist: The Alot is better than you at everything

LOL I was going to post the same thing Lol

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#14 - 2013-05-07 00:05:47 UTC
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.


THIS... is why miners stay in HS and will never leave... thank you for making my point...
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#15 - 2013-05-07 00:11:57 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Ok, I don't know if this is the case internally or not, but it seems to be the way alot fo people take it and what alot of people seem to think is the reason, plot, conspiracy, etc.

SO, why don't all the HS miners go, WOW, Low-Sec Ore is better (run to low-sec) and mine, and then say... WOW, Null-Sec Ore is better (and run to null-sec) and mine, and then say WOW!!!... WH Ore is better OMG, and move into WHs and mine...?


Because they're not. The grav sites in 0.0 actually have a lower ISK/m^3 value than some of the hi-sec ores.

This may seem incredible to you, but it's true.

That's what's getting fixed.

And another thing: no one wnats to "drive" you into 0.0. In fact the people in 0.0 want you to stay the hell in hi-sec. Now that their ore is actually worth mining (it's going to be a whole 24% better than yours now!) they want you to keep your dirty hands off their ore because they want it all to themselves.

tl;dr: 0.0 mining was actually worth less than hisec, now it's going to be worth a little more. You can stay right where you are and keep mining.


All good now?


You mistake that I am bitching and not explaining to some why HS mining is where people stay... also you failed apparently to look at my info... I have been in IAC for almost 4 years.... and in HS... and I NEVER intent to leave it or move out of HS... so for me personally it's a moot point... but I read many posts saying HS miners. Low-Sec whiner's... etc... and I felt I would say it how it is.... which is what I did.

I like the game personally just like it is, it if changes I will adapt and keep in IAC and HS and so whatever it is that works for me... but I am rather sick of people trying to say lets get people to be targets (industrials) and convince them to walk out and down range of a live fire exercise... lol... good luck... so the ganker's will continue to gank idiots, and the game's market place will stay much the same no matter what is done... Low-Sec will always be low-population, and Null will always be "Renter/Pet" havens of the Alliances... nothing wrong with it, I just wish people and CCP would stop trying to "incent" people who have NO interest in PVP to become involved in it...
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#16 - 2013-05-07 00:14:48 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
"alot" isn't a word. You probably meant "a lot" (see how it's two (2) words?), which is kinda ****-poor grammar anyway.

And I didn't read your Wall of Text beyond that first sentence. Something about mining, I'm guessing.


A LOT... pardon my typo... I was speed typing on battery in a parked car waiting on someone... but I am sure your perfect, so I consider you comment a true condemnation of my ability, education and mind... I will go die now, I'M NOT WORTHY!!!!... OMG!!!!... GREAT MAKER, FORGIVE ME!!!!

Roll
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#17 - 2013-05-07 00:17:24 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
"alot" isn't a word. You probably meant "a lot" (see how it's two (2) words?), which is kinda ****-poor grammar anyway.

Can't resist: The Alot is better than you at everything


LOL... I love it... well in a world of U R... and all one typo is probably acceptable... I SHALL CHANGE IT!!!... Blink
Haulie Berry
#18 - 2013-05-07 03:31:40 UTC
Haven Chipri wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.



I think that's the point to the post. Why have a part of the game exist when it is clearly not fun, and nothing CCP has ever done has or will ever change that? Something needs to be done to make mining fun and enjoyable outside of the few actual small corps who get drunk and play xbox while they have a mining op.


OP was not whinging about the "funness" of mining. OP was whinging about the "funness" of combat in mining ships.

With the rare exception (see Rubyporto's link), combat in mining ships should not be fun, and they should not do anything about that.
Haulie Berry
#19 - 2013-05-07 03:36:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Haulie Berry wrote:
They're not supposed to be fun in combat. It's a mining ship. If you find yourself in combat, the experience is supposed to be roughly akin to dropping the soap in a prison shower.

It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.

Eve is not designed to concern itself with making sure every experience is equitably enjoyable for all parties involved. It's specifically designed to allow for the victimization of some players at the hands of others which, generally speaking, isn't a barrel of laughs for the victim in question.


THIS... is why miners stay in HS and will never leave... thank you for making my point...


Yeah, here comes the clue train, last stop is you: Nobody ******* cares if miners mine in hi-sec. No, seriously. Abso-*******-lutely nobody.

Many people, by virtue of preternatural idiocy, frequently mistake certain changes (such as the coming ore and ice changes) as an attempt to push people out of hi sec.

The purpose of these changes is not to entice King Carebear away from Concord's apron strings, but to set the risk/reward ratio at a point where people who actually want to be out in low/null in the first place can actually justify using that space.
Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#20 - 2013-05-07 04:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Sheep
Quote:
It's not a bug; it's a feature. Your #1 combat strategy is, by design, to avoid combat. It's also not fun fighting in a freighter. It's not supposed to be.


So that's why the mining barges capable of mining any significant amount of ore to make a basic living from & replace the occasional expensive losses are so nimble...

Like telling a sloth it should use it's natural ability to run if danger appears? Lol
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