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So the pendulum is swinging back?

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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#161 - 2013-05-15 06:27:50 UTC
JAF Anders wrote:
Shadow Adanza wrote:
Cearain wrote:


How is notoras a strategic system to hold?



Only docking system near Nisuwa for several jumps... miners go there thinking it's safe to pve. (Ventures are worth some nice BC points.)


Confirming that BC points are a key component of metrics of corp success.



Damn - I been doing it wrong.

Wish I'd been told sooner.
I've been going by the ship spin counter at the bottom of my ship hanger all this time. Cry

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Feffri
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#162 - 2013-05-15 08:44:54 UTC
who is this cerain guy? He talks a lot about fw but doesn't seem like he's in fw... anyway though dude you should stop talking because I think in every forum i read you are on the wrong side of the argument. justk qcats are pretty stong pvp groups and most people know it you are just making it so that anything you write has no merit and will not be taken seriously.

Also SUPER CHAIR is in amarian vengeance!! fukin A bro. We moved out with i law up north. where you guys based out of ? I want to drop some ships in your system so i can come fly with you... are you still doing all shield ships or you giving into armor now that you are out here with amarr mil?

hopefully ilaw and amarian vengeance are friendly ... i don't know any of the politics out here yet but hope to see you around 0/
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#163 - 2013-05-15 10:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Feffri wrote:
who is this cerain guy? He talks a lot about fw but doesn't seem like he's in fw... anyway though dude you should stop talking because I think in every forum i read you are on the wrong side of the argument. justk qcats are pretty stong pvp groups and most people know it you are just making it so that anything you write has no merit and will not be taken seriously.

Also SUPER CHAIR is in amarian vengeance!! fukin A bro. We moved out with i law up north. where you guys based out of ? I want to drop some ships in your system so i can come fly with you... are you still doing all shield ships or you giving into armor now that you are out here with amarr mil?

hopefully ilaw and amarian vengeance are friendly ... i don't know any of the politics out here yet but hope to see you around 0/


Cretins mains are not in FW, just his farming alts. This pretty much explains his backward looking inferno-worship and his notification system as a tool for farmers to steal LP effectively.

As far as FW goes, my main concern was that Amarr looked completely broken. But with their resurgence im personally confident that the current mechanics are OK. Just some tweaks, that have been discussed, are now needed to take some power away from evasion farmers and then it should be a good environment for everyone to make isk and PvP.

Im not looing forward to moving my stuff out of nis, but the fights in the meantime should be good!
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#164 - 2013-05-15 12:03:15 UTC
Im utterly surprised by this pengulous swing back to higher teirs for Amarr, i did not think it would happen with the way things are mechanic wise.

however, i think this thread proves that the swing is due to a lack of care from the winners than an overbaring show of positive care from Amarr - which i think is a big shame and proves further than the system as a whole is not working - but thats hard to say when the impossible is happening!

proving its broken by showing that its working for the wrong reasons!

eve should be about positive care and effort for rewards, right now the amarr are getting 'rewarded' for just caring as much as they always did rather than any significant new effort. Of course once a side looks to slip the farmers will swap making the shoft more pronounced.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Tarn Vedera
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#165 - 2013-05-15 12:19:52 UTC
Tarn Vedera wrote:



I can see this is being a good reason. I have been keeping tabs on the militia numbers. When Amarr was down to just Sahtogas, the minmatar faction had over 6400 people, while amarr was just under 3600. Two weeks ago, when Amarr entered Tier 2, and just before minmatar dropped to T2, it was still 3600-ish amarr and 6300-ish minmatar. As of 12 hours ago when I last checked, with amarr holding firmly in Tier 3 status and looking to jump to T4, and minmatar dangerously close to tier 1, amarr is up to 3800+ (not a huge increase in numbers, but an increase) and minmatar down to under 5800, a loss of some almost 600 pilots.

Another thing to notice, the minmatar havn't been able to capture any of the systems that amarr took from them. They had one system vulnerable, and PL hot-dropping it kept them from taking it. And since then the Amarr have got it back down to under 40%. That was halfway through last week. Since that poit, amarr has flipped almost 20 systems in very rapid succession. One minmatar corp offered to pay some amarr corp 500 million to stop plexing their system.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the numbers if Amarr hits Tier 4 in the next 3-4 days (very possible).



To expand on this, 2 days later. Amarr is up to 4099 members, first time I have ever seen it over 4000. Thats a +300 or so member jump in 2 days. Minmatar is at 5700, about a 100 pilot loss.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-05-15 13:24:37 UTC
Tarn Vedera wrote:

To expand on this, 2 days later. Amarr is up to 4099 members, first time I have ever seen it over 4000. Thats a +300 or so member jump in 2 days. Minmatar is at 5700, about a 100 pilot loss.


thats a good indicator but i do wish the thousands of alts that never get used were not a part of the statistics, say only pilots logged in over the past X months (6 months sounds good)

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#167 - 2013-05-15 13:41:08 UTC
Feffri wrote:
who is this cerain guy? He talks a lot about fw but doesn't seem like he's in fw... anyway though dude you should stop talking because I think in every forum i read you are on the wrong side of the argument. justk qcats are pretty stong pvp groups and most people know it you are just making it so that anything you write has no merit and will not be taken seriously.


It seems you are pretty new to faction war. You should try to win the sov war a bit, and learn how to do it. Only then make your mind up about whose view you support or don't support. Thats more sensible than just trying to kiss up to players you think are "important" like a teen girl.

Yes a few people on this forum play faction war and therefore have a tendency to defend it - even beyond reason. I am one of the very few people who played faction war, gave up on it to get more pvp, yet continue to post data establishing the problems. What I post is pretty well known by anyone who has tried to win sov though.

There are plenty of people who share some of my views and think faction war needs work. But generally anyone who posts on these forums suggesting that fw needs work gets shouted down by about 5 forum warriors who appearantly patrol the forums for that reason.

You will know their posts by the fact that they never give any actual data to support their claim. They will also just make vague claims like we got "a lot of pvp" when we pushed for sov instead of comparing it to the amount of pvp they got when they weren't pushing sov. And they all absolutely hate it when someone suggests we look at the killboards of the daily top vp gainers. (If you don't know what vp is you should look it up)

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#168 - 2013-05-15 13:55:02 UTC
@ Chatgris

Thanks for the information.

Since notoras has only one ?non-regional? gate I don't think I would ever base my ships there. But I see your reasoning.

I didn't realize caldari sprung back that quickly by January and February.

As for whether you left the plexes before they were captured I meant your pvp characters not alts. I did something similar to what you did/do with 2 alts sitting in plexes capturing them while I pvped. But for me it ruins all sense of immersion in the game. It was too much of an annoying chore to spend my free time on. Maybe because I am relatively old, I wish the mechanics were such that the best plexers were not alts.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#169 - 2013-05-15 14:26:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Muad 'dib wrote:
Tarn Vedera wrote:

To expand on this, 2 days later. Amarr is up to 4099 members, first time I have ever seen it over 4000. Thats a +300 or so member jump in 2 days. Minmatar is at 5700, about a 100 pilot loss.


thats a good indicator but i do wish the thousands of alts that never get used were not a part of the statistics, say only pilots logged in over the past X months (6 months sounds good)



Personally, i kinda like that plexing alts with no loyalty tip scales for any faction. This in itself ensures the battlefield doesnt get stagnat from a few determined lolrp'ers plexing to ridiculous levels.

To put it simply;
Occupancy RP'ers never change their loyalty, the side with more of them wins forever. Farmers prevent them from locking out an enemy faction indefinitely. This is what we see happening in the matar/amarr wt atm.

There is no FW utopia unless we completely remove income from occupancy. We had that and low-sec was much less active. There is only what works. Signs are that FW is working in BOTH WZ's now.

I didnt read cretins posts as i have them hidden. Im sure it was something stupid though.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#170 - 2013-05-15 15:19:47 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:

thats a good indicator but i do wish the thousands of alts that never get used were not a part of the statistics, say only pilots logged in over the past X months (6 months sounds good)

I don't think they are. The stats only include "active" pilots. I don't know what "active" means, but if they included all FW pilots the Caldari would be well over 8k.

Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#171 - 2013-05-15 15:30:25 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:

thats a good indicator but i do wish the thousands of alts that never get used were not a part of the statistics, say only pilots logged in over the past X months (6 months sounds good)

I don't think they are. The stats only include "active" pilots. I don't know what "active" means, but if they included all FW pilots the Caldari would be well over 8k.



theres been 3k + for amarr since i joined 4 years ago, and i can tell you now there were NOT that number of poeple pvping or plexing, thats for damned sure.

The numbers are diffidently off for one reason or another.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#172 - 2013-05-15 16:08:11 UTC
Previously, the number of characters in each militia included both active and inactive accounts. In either Inferno or Retribution (I forget), CCP changed this to only include enlisted characters on active accounts. I think :)

.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#173 - 2013-05-15 16:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Andre Vauban wrote:
Previously, the number of characters in each militia included both active and inactive accounts. In either Inferno or Retribution (I forget), CCP changed this to only include enlisted characters on active accounts. I think :)


This sounds about right, but i was saying that while the account if active they are not actually playing that FW alt at all and havnt probably in some cases for years. after the inital FW rush when it was first introduced.

having the totals reflect chars who have actually logged in in the past X months is the key to finding real numbers.

After all, theres no point in saying "ZOMG this last 2 months this or that has happened" when 90% of them have not played any FW what so ever in years. you cant speculate on incorrect statistics.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#174 - 2013-05-15 16:44:24 UTC
Cearain wrote:
You will know their posts by the fact that they never give any actual data to support their claim. They will also just make vague claims like we got "a lot of pvp" when we pushed for sov instead of comparing it to the amount of pvp they got when they weren't pushing sov. And they all absolutely hate it when someone suggests we look at the killboards of the daily top vp gainers. (If you don't know what vp is you should look it up)

1. Still waiting for your afk plexing army to capture all of the systems.
2. Don't give into "The Tyranny of the 'Or' " Cearain. We have already proven you that having massive amounts of pvp AND capture all the systems are possible. In fact, massive amounts of pvp are required to take all the systems unless the other side quits fighting (but what'cha gonna do at that point?).
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2013-05-15 16:47:38 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Andre Vauban wrote:
Previously, the number of characters in each militia included both active and inactive accounts. In either Inferno or Retribution (I forget), CCP changed this to only include enlisted characters on active accounts. I think :)


This sounds about right, but i was saying that while the account if active they are not actually playing that FW alt at all and havnt probably in some cases for years. after the inital FW rush when it was first introduced.

having the totals reflect chars who have actually logged in in the past X months is the key to finding real numbers.

After all, theres no point in saying "ZOMG this last 2 months this or that has happened" when 90% of them have not played any FW what so ever in years. you cant speculate on incorrect statistics.



Good point. I seem to recall CCP providing some information on characters in FW who earned at least 1 VP in the last 3 months or something like that. If we had that data, it would be a better proxy for what you are asking. At least you know they undocked and ran a plex.

.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#176 - 2013-05-15 17:03:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
You will know their posts by the fact that they never give any actual data to support their claim. They will also just make vague claims like we got "a lot of pvp" when we pushed for sov instead of comparing it to the amount of pvp they got when they weren't pushing sov. And they all absolutely hate it when someone suggests we look at the killboards of the daily top vp gainers. (If you don't know what vp is you should look it up)

1. Still waiting for your afk plexing army to capture all of the systems.


I'm not interested in doing that, I would rather pvp with the time I spend in game. If I wanted to have alts sit by buttons I would still be in faction war.

X Gallentius wrote:

2. Don't give into "The Tyranny of the 'Or' " Cearain. We have already proven you that having massive amounts of pvp AND capture all the systems are possible. In fact, massive amounts of pvp are required to take all the systems unless the other side quits fighting (but what'cha gonna do at that point?).



More vague terminology.

Facts: Your corp got a 50% increase in pvp as soon as the plexing push ended. Qcats got an 80% increase in pvp as soon as the plexing push ended.

This is why people like Almity post Thank F@@@@king God! after we hit tier 4, and he explains that he would rather pvp than have multiple alts orbitting buttons. If you and the others here like having multiple alts sit by buttons thats fine - there is no accounting for taste. But I will continue to speak truthfully about how fw sov is won based on actual data. Including what I gave above and the killboards of the top daily vp gainers.

You, I am sure, will continue to ignore the actual data and continue to use your vague terminology.

If ccp made some sensible changes those top vp gainers would not have such embarrassing killboards for the days they earned that vp. But people like you keep lobbying to prevent fw sov from being a pvp game.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#177 - 2013-05-15 17:10:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:
more utterly useless crap.

Thanks again for telling me what it takes to win the FW Sov game again Cearain. I am always amazed that you know so much more than the people who have actually done it.



Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#178 - 2013-05-15 17:23:06 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
more utterly useless crap.

Thanks again for telling me what it takes to win the FW Sov game again Cearain. I am always amazed that you know so much more than the people who have actually done it.


I have done faction war with these mechanics.

I base my conclusions on data, not the opinions of fanboys who want to glorify their medal.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Combatevolved
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-05-15 17:28:36 UTC
All I know is dealing with stabbed farmers is very annoying and almost impossible to protect systems. Even home systems, if they come when you are not on(tz). There is no point to even dplex or upgrade the system because it will be just right back to lvl 0 and vulnerable.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#180 - 2013-05-15 17:42:52 UTC
Combatevolved wrote:
All I know is dealing with stabbed farmers is very annoying and almost impossible to protect systems. Even home systems, if they come when you are not on(tz). There is no point to even dplex or upgrade the system because it will be just right back to lvl 0 and vulnerable.



Well, soon you won't have to deal with that much longer :)

Minmatar is on the losing end, the superior numbers of Caldari carebears will fit their stabs with a vengeance, and I expect Gallente to be down to 10-15 systems again in a month or two tops.