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So the pendulum is swinging back?

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#121 - 2013-05-14 19:02:13 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Zarnak is neither a farmer or a rabbit but it should be revealing that he explained his recent top spot on the vp list by saying he did it for the isk. Its pretty clear to most, you wouldn't do that for the pvp.

What, a player in FW is able to fund his pvp habit while running plexes (and also getting fights)? Very revealing indeed! SYTEM IS BROKEN!!!! cryemoragequitting now!
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#122 - 2013-05-14 19:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Your petulant comment would make sense if Zarnak said "At moments where we hit tier 1 I will put in a day or two to take advantage of it." But he didn't say that. So your post makes little sense.

You're right again. He only said he makes all his isk from FW LP and Amarr had been in Tier 1 for a bazillion months in a row. There's no correlation there whatsoever between being able to fund a quality pvp existence and being at Tier 1. Nope. None whatsoever. Thanks for straightening me out again Cearain. Much appreciated.


Zarnak did not say the bolded part. You are the one who started in with funding a quality pvp existence (whatever that means) at tier 1. He said he takes advantage of it when they are at a higher tier.

I'm still not sure what connection your comments had with his post.

X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Zarnak is neither a farmer or a rabbit but it should be revealing that he explained his recent top spot on the vp list by saying he did it for the isk. Its pretty clear to most, you wouldn't do that for the pvp.

What, a player in FW is able to fund his pvp habit while running plexes (and also getting fights)? Very revealing indeed! SYTEM IS BROKEN!!!! cryemoragequitting now!


More drama from XG. Roll

I don't think anyone ever claimed you couldn't get isk from plexing after inferno. Whats revealing is how little pvp someone gets when they decide to capture as many plexes as they can.

Seriously you get a bit too emotional about this stuff.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#123 - 2013-05-14 19:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Your petulant comment would make sense if Zarnak said "At moments where we hit tier 1 I will put in a day or two to take advantage of it." But he didn't say that. So your post makes little sense.

You're right again. He only said he makes all his isk from FW LP and Amarr had been in Tier 1 for a bazillion months in a row. There's no correlation there whatsoever between being able to fund a quality pvp existence and being at Tier 1. Nope. None whatsoever. Thanks for straightening me out again Cearain. Much appreciated.


Zarnak did not say the bolded part. You are the one who started in with funding a quality pvp existence (whatever that means) at tier 1. He said he takes advantage of it when they are at a higher tier.

I'm still not sure what connection your comments had with his post.

You're absolutely right he did not. Either you misread the sentence or I typed it wrong. But Amarr had been at Tier 1 or a bazillion and a half months. Again. No correlation at all. Can't make isk at Tier 1. I get it.

And *gasp*, people take advantage of the higher tiers. Completely proves the point that... umm... err... I'm sure it proves a point somewhere. Oh yeah. Players can get stinking filthy rich in FW - AND they can get massive numbers of kills in FW too. With the same character.
Almity
In Exile.
#124 - 2013-05-14 19:21:35 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Zarnak is neither a farmer or a rabbit but it should be revealing that he explained his recent top spot on the vp list by saying he did it for the isk. Its pretty clear to most, you wouldn't do that for the pvp.

What, a player in FW is able to fund his pvp habit while running plexes (and also getting fights)? Very revealing indeed! SYTEM IS BROKEN!!!! cryemoragequitting now!



I can pay for frigs and dessys and a few cruisers with T1 lp. Normally Im fine kicking minmatar butt in a slicer or thrasher but every now and then I want to fly something more grown up. I spend my time in eve doing FW things, should that mean Im resigned to flying t1 frigs? Is that what FW is supposed to be now?

T1 is ********. T5 is stupid. FW missions are the most messed up thing in eve at the moment.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#125 - 2013-05-14 19:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Well, if the Amarr gain the upper hand again, it should get interesting. Time for the Gallente to buckle down and defend home systems from the Caldari farming horde.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#126 - 2013-05-14 19:25:45 UTC
Almity wrote:
I can pay for frigs and dessys and a few cruisers with T1 lp. Normally Im fine kicking minmatar butt in a slicer or thrasher but every now and then I want to fly something more grown up. I spend my time in eve doing FW things, should that mean Im resigned to flying t1 frigs? Is that what FW is supposed to be now?

T1 is ********. T5 is stupid. FW missions are the most messed up thing in eve at the moment.

I also feel entitled and think that I should fly ships that don't fit in the plexes (where I'm supposed to get fights in FW). When Gallente FW hits Tier 1 I think I'll go do something else where I have to actually take time out of my day to go PvE for isk.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#127 - 2013-05-14 19:26:38 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Well, if the Amarr gain the upper hand again, it should get interesting. Time for the Gallente to buckle down and defend home systems from the Caldari farming horde.
Maybe we'll cry on the forums or something when we hit Tier 1. Like we didn't do last time.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#128 - 2013-05-14 19:28:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Your petulant comment would make sense if Zarnak said "At moments where we hit tier 1 I will put in a day or two to take advantage of it." But he didn't say that. So your post makes little sense.

You're right again. He only said he makes all his isk from FW LP and Amarr had been in Tier 1 for a bazillion months in a row. There's no correlation there whatsoever between being able to fund a quality pvp existence and being at Tier 1. Nope. None whatsoever. Thanks for straightening me out again Cearain. Much appreciated.


Zarnak did not say the bolded part. You are the one who started in with funding a quality pvp existence (whatever that means) at tier 1. He said he takes advantage of it when they are at a higher tier.

I'm still not sure what connection your comments had with his post.

You're absolutely right he did not. Either you misread the sentence or I typed it wrong. But Amarr had been at Tier 1 or a bazillion and a half months. Again. No correlation at all. Can't make isk at Tier 1. I get it.

And *gasp*, people take advantage of the higher tiers. Completely proves the point that... umm... err... I'm sure it proves a point somewhere. Oh yeah. Players can get stinking filthy rich in FW - AND they can get massive numbers of kills in FW too. With the same character.


Change your emo all caps "AND" to an "or" and I think I would agree.

But sadly if you are really trying to gain as much sov as you can for your militia you won't get much pvp. That is what the data demonstrates.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#129 - 2013-05-14 19:30:07 UTC
Cearain wrote:
. Whats revealing is how little pvp someone gets when they decide to capture as many plexes as they can.

Amazing isn't it. When somebody wants to avoid combat and farm they don't get pvp. Who'da thunk?

Maybe if they wanted pvp as well they would plex in systems where people lived and were forced to fight or lose their system? Nah, too obvious. My bad.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#130 - 2013-05-14 19:31:45 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Almity wrote:
I can pay for frigs and dessys and a few cruisers with T1 lp. Normally Im fine kicking minmatar butt in a slicer or thrasher but every now and then I want to fly something more grown up. I spend my time in eve doing FW things, should that mean Im resigned to flying t1 frigs? Is that what FW is supposed to be now?

T1 is ********. T5 is stupid. FW missions are the most messed up thing in eve at the moment.

I also feel entitled and think that I should fly ships that don't fit in the plexes (where I'm supposed to get fights in FW). When Gallente FW hits Tier 1 I think I'll go do something else where I have to actually take time out of my day to go PvE for isk.



At one time ccp suggested that plexing was not intended to be a pve activity.

Unfortunately most of the changes necessary to make it a pvp mechanic, have not yet been implemented.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#131 - 2013-05-14 19:33:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Change your emo all caps "AND" to an "or" and I think I would agree. But sadly if you are really trying to gain as much sov as you can for your militia you won't get much pvp. That is what the data demonstrates.


Let's get something straight here:
1. When I tried to win the sov war I got fights and my side won. (Check out December killboard stats)
2. When YOU try to win the sov war, you get neither fights nor do you win.

QED.
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#132 - 2013-05-14 19:33:29 UTC
In b4 cerain turns this into if there was a notification systems amarr would be at t5 already FFS.............................

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#133 - 2013-05-14 20:05:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Change your emo all caps "AND" to an "or" and I think I would agree. But sadly if you are really trying to gain as much sov as you can for your militia you won't get much pvp. That is what the data demonstrates.


Let's get something straight here:
1. When I tried to win the sov war I got fights and my side won. (Check out December killboard stats)
2. When YOU try to win the sov war, you get neither fights nor do you win.

QED.


Since you claim plexing is a pvp mechanic you would think that the time of gallentes plexing push November and December would show higher kills for gallente than the January and February (when the plexing push ended).

But the November and December killboards are lower than the January and February killboards for the gallente corps I checked. For example, 2900 kills for qcats in november and december versus 5200 for january and february. Your corp 2700 for november and december and 4000 for january and february.

So the data you suggested I look at seems to go against your conclusion. Can we expect you to post how you changed your opinion?

Anyway I am not sure when I tried to win the sov war. But I do see some of the people who are the most effective at gaining sov for their milita. They are listed as the top vp gainers for the day, according to the api. It doesn't look like they are getting much pvp either.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Almity
In Exile.
#134 - 2013-05-14 20:06:41 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Change your emo all caps "AND" to an "or" and I think I would agree. But sadly if you are really trying to gain as much sov as you can for your militia you won't get much pvp. That is what the data demonstrates.


Let's get something straight here:
1. When I tried to win the sov war I got fights and my side won. (Check out December killboard stats)
2. When YOU try to win the sov war, you get neither fights nor do you win.

QED.


So its our fault the minmatar won't fight? My corp had 2000+ kills when amarr had almost no systems. When we started pressing systems our pvp dropped substantially. So should we spin buttons and get a higher tier and some isk or do we focus on pvp and lose control of the wz?

Oh wow, look at that. We are back to the current problems with FW.......
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#135 - 2013-05-14 20:12:41 UTC
Quote:
When we started pressing systems our pvp dropped substantially.


And Minmatar kills skyrocketed when the Amarr started pushing. It's almost as if going on the offensive requires taking more risks with your ships than sitting in one system farming kills.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#136 - 2013-05-14 20:27:38 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
When we started pressing systems our pvp dropped substantially.


And Minmatar kills skyrocketed when the Amarr started pushing. It's almost as if going on the offensive requires taking more risks with your ships than sitting in one system farming kills.



No. Under the current mechanics plexing as best you can involves almost no risk. If you don't believe me look at the top vp gainers for the day. Then look how much isk in ships they lost for the day they hit that top spot.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#137 - 2013-05-14 20:53:04 UTC
Almity wrote:
So its our fault the minmatar won't fight? ....

Exactly. It becomes boring when the other side decides to not fight. Nothing you can do about it except attack their home systems.
Juan Rayo
Justified Chaos
#138 - 2013-05-14 20:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Juan Rayo
yes Cearain, to determine pvp as related to plexing we should look at the KB of the farmers that always run, instead at the killboards of the pvpers involved.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#139 - 2013-05-14 21:03:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Well, if the Amarr gain the upper hand again, it should get interesting. Time for the Gallente to buckle down and defend home systems from the Caldari farming horde.
Maybe we'll cry on the forums or something when we hit Tier 1. Like we didn't do last time.


I'm actually looking forward to it. A caldari resurgence means more pvp, and the value of my stored LP should increase if Gallente can actually stay at T1 for any appreciable time (last time we didn't stay at T1 long enough :( )
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#140 - 2013-05-14 21:15:17 UTC
Cearain wrote:

Change your emo all caps "AND" to an "or" and I think I would agree.


Cearain wrote:

Since you claim plexing is a pvp mechanic you would think that the time of gallentes plexing push November and December would show higher kills for gallente than the January and February (when the plexing push ended).

But the November and December killboards are lower than the January and February killboards for the gallente corps I checked. For example, 2900 kills for qcats in november and december versus 5200 for january and february. Your corp 2700 for november and december and 4000 for january and february.


I take it that you agree that Gallente (not you) can win the Sov war AND get fights (lots of them).

Otherwise you wouldn't be attempting to claim that a corporation that gets 2700 to 2900 kills over a two month period is not getting fights.

The only lack of fights we got during the sov push was when the Caldari decided to not fight (Southern Placid, OMS). In that sense you're right. Winning convincingly helps the other side "decide to do something more fun."