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CCP Please add I voted tags on these forums

First post
Author
Frying Doom
#1 - 2013-05-06 04:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Dear CCP,

We the players need some kind of reward for voting.

I personally would like a little tag similar to the wanted sign for these forums that just says "I voted", this as well as a higher profile by CCP about the CSM as well as increasing the advertising for voting, prior to and during the elections would help to increase voter turn out.

At the moment we have a very strange arrangement
What is the CSM wrote:
The Scope of the CSM

The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base”. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.

The CSM is meant to be our voice and to actively engage with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the “greatest good for the greater player base" but at the moment it is just primarily the Null and Wormhole minorities that actually vote.

While the CSM members could also increase there own visibility by posting the a CSM blurb in every Dev blog, as to their opinion and involvement in whatever the Dev maybe commenting on, and subsequently adding a link to a specific post in Jita park. It still remains strange that the minorities that are elected need to speak for those that do not vote, but rather than the CSM just speaking for minorities, I would like to see rewards added for those who actually vote.

The players need to be educated as to WHY they should vote, the STV system has made it harder to get people to vote, so more needs to be done all year long to encourage people to ask, "What is the CSM?" and "Why should I vote?"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-05-06 04:39:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
If the CSM's existence and work isn't enough to get someone to vote, then chances are it's not worth voting for. They're not going to care if you pay them to, they're going to vote, collect reward, and go back to doing nothing again.

I know this is the part where you'll point out Australia, but equating real life politics (and similar RL consequences for not voting in this case) to an internet spaceship council is just kind of dumb.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Frying Doom
#3 - 2013-05-06 04:49:32 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
If the CSM's existence and work isn't enough to get someone to vote, then chances are it's not worth voting for. They're not going to care if you pay them to, they're going to vote, collect reward, and go back to doing nothing again.

I know this is the part where you'll point out Australia, but equating real life politics (and similar RL consequences for not voting in this case) to an internet spaceship council is just kind of dumb.

Which was why I suggested a reward that was out of game. If they gain something that can be used here they might just decide to become a more active member of the community as a whole but even an in game bonus would not actually be a bad thing.

I am not actually for forced voting, Australia's donkey vote was listed so I merely posted the stats.

I would just like to see the CSM, by them selves and with the aid of CCP increase the awareness of of the CSM and get to the point where a large number of people will ask "What is the CSM?" and "Why should they Vote?", then actually receive an answer.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-05-06 05:00:52 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:

The players need to be educated as to WHY they should vote.... -edit- ...so more needs to be done all year long to encourage people to ask, "What is the CSM?" and "Why should I vote?"
This is a good idea. The question would be how?
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-05-06 05:05:10 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
I would just like to see the CSM, by them selves and with the aid of CCP increase the awareness of of the CSM and get to the point where a large number of people will ask "What is the CSM?" and "Why should they Vote?", then actually receive an answer.


Absolutely, and the answer needs to have a literal relation to the CSM itself. If we can't sell new voters with the information we have, we either need more information (which CCP at least started to do with that "what the CSM means to us" devblog") or better sales people.

Rewards never work in this sense, because it changes the reason from "I vote because I believe in this process or this candidate" to "I get a free thing". The former implies there will be at least some level of interest and/or commitment to the process, but the latter is just "I want a thing", and once they have said thing, they'll go back to not caring until they can get a new thing.

You want to get a more diverse vote? Encourage players to actually form communities, and organize accordingly. Sov null did it, the Wormhole crowd did it, and with your much-maligned STV system making said organization even easier, there's no excuse anymore. That being said, best of luck trying to encourage highseccers to get behind anything that isn't an inch in front of their own nose - I suspect you realize this as well, hence you wanting a prize for voting instead.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Frying Doom
#6 - 2013-05-06 05:28:52 UTC
How it would be done


  • A link on the main page, off the One Universe tab to a page about the CSM.
  • Regular communication by the CSM on these very forums.
  • Posts about how the CSM contributed on every Dev blog they have influenced.
  • A unified place where all CSM (and member) posts, blogs, podcasts, ect.. are listed
  • Splash screams linking to a CSM page, every 4-6 weeks, just to keep people updated and to keep the CSM in their minds.
  • A banner as listed above for people who vote.
  • Possible rewards for voters in the game, like an 'I Voted' Iteron.
  • A blurb within the NPE about the CSM.
  • A video blog about the CSM 2 weeks or so before the elections, that does not put people to sleep.
  • Blogs about the CSMs last term released the day the elections open.


These are some of the things I like to see, that naturally enough the people of the current minorities holding the majority of the CSM seats will oppose or ridicule.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

dark heartt
#7 - 2013-05-06 05:44:33 UTC
I agree Doom, there needs to be a lot more done to promote the CSM, but I do have a question for you (more to see your thoughts on it tbh).

What would you do to reach that major portion of the player base who simply don't read anything about the game besides the occasional guide? Those players still will not vote if you reward them. They do not want anything to do with "out of game" things like the CSM. They do not come to forums (here or otherwise), read dev blogs or even patch notes. They skip through splash screens.

I myself was like that for a time when I was learning the game and it wasn't until CSM6 that I really started to pay attention to the CSM, but I am usually like that with games (getting more and more involved over time). However a friend I started with simply wouldn't know what the CSM is if I hadn't told him, and even then he isn't going to vote (in his words, why bother voting for a virtual government?)

How would you try to get the word to those 'single player' soloists out there?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-05-06 06:05:50 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
How it would be done


  • A link on the main page, off the One Universe tab to a page about the CSM.
  • Regular communication by the CSM on these very forums.
  • Posts about how the CSM contributed on every Dev blog they have influenced.
  • A unified place where all CSM (and member) posts, blogs, podcasts, ect.. are listed
  • Splash screams linking to a CSM page, every 4-6 weeks, just to keep people updated and to keep the CSM in their minds.
  • A banner as listed above for people who vote.
  • Possible rewards for voters in the game, like an 'I Voted' Iteron.
  • A blurb within the NPE about the CSM.
  • A video blog about the CSM 2 weeks or so before the elections, that does not put people to sleep.
  • Blogs about the CSMs last term released the day the elections open.


These are some of the things I like to see, that naturally enough the people of the current minorities holding the majority of the CSM seats will oppose or ridicule.
Those look like some pretty good ideas that could be implemented.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-05-06 07:19:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Dear CCP,

We the players need some kind of reward for voting.


And here I am! Cool

Frying Doom wrote:
I personally would like a little tag similar to the wanted sign for these forums that just says "I voted", this as well as a higher profile by CCP about the CSM as well as increasing the advertising for voting, prior to and during the elections would help to increase voter turn out.


Agreed though, so long as displaying the badge is a forum-only thing. This is a Good Idea™

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-05-06 07:21:57 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
I would just like to see the CSM, by them selves and with the aid of CCP increase the awareness of of the CSM and get to the point where a large number of people will ask "What is the CSM?" and "Why should they Vote?", then actually receive an answer.


Absolutely, and the answer needs to have a literal relation to the CSM itself. If we can't sell new voters with the information we have, we either need more information (which CCP at least started to do with that "what the CSM means to us" devblog") or better sales people.

Rewards never work in this sense, because it changes the reason from "I vote because I believe in this process or this candidate" to "I get a free thing". The former implies there will be at least some level of interest and/or commitment to the process, but the latter is just "I want a thing", and once they have said thing, they'll go back to not caring until they can get a new thing.

You want to get a more diverse vote? Encourage players to actually form communities, and organize accordingly. Sov null did it, the Wormhole crowd did it, and with your much-maligned STV system making said organization even easier, there's no excuse anymore. That being said, best of luck trying to encourage highseccers to get behind anything that isn't an inch in front of their own nose - I suspect you realize this as well, hence you wanting a prize for voting instead.


I want this, not because it's a "reward" (I'm not sure it's going to incentivise many to actually vote) but because it will be useful to the CSM itself.

And as FD correctly points out, it will raise the CSM's profile even if just a little.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-05-06 07:37:59 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I want this, not because it's a "reward" (I'm not sure it's going to incentivise many to actually vote) but because it will be useful to the CSM itself..


How?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-05-06 07:39:35 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I want this, not because it's a "reward" (I'm not sure it's going to incentivise many to actually vote) but because it will be useful to the CSM itself..


How?


So we know whether we're reading a post made by a voter.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-05-06 07:48:08 UTC
I Votes forum tags would be awesome, and were requested this year more than once. Maybe CSM8 delivers?

It'd be hella useful on more than one level.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Frying Doom
#14 - 2013-05-06 07:55:18 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
I agree Doom, there needs to be a lot more done to promote the CSM, but I do have a question for you (more to see your thoughts on it tbh).

What would you do to reach that major portion of the player base who simply don't read anything about the game besides the occasional guide? Those players still will not vote if you reward them. They do not want anything to do with "out of game" things like the CSM. They do not come to forums (here or otherwise), read dev blogs or even patch notes. They skip through splash screens.

I myself was like that for a time when I was learning the game and it wasn't until CSM6 that I really started to pay attention to the CSM, but I am usually like that with games (getting more and more involved over time). However a friend I started with simply wouldn't know what the CSM is if I hadn't told him, and even then he isn't going to vote (in his words, why bother voting for a virtual government?)

How would you try to get the word to those 'single player' soloists out there?

To be honest that is the hardest one out there and before the last election, I would have said it required changing CCPs ideas of the CSM not belonging in game but the CSM was brought in game by CCP. So now what I would suggest is a blurb in the NPE, splash screens through out the year and advertising all year long on the ingame billboards, I remember spending ages looking at those as a new player.

The primary idea is to get them asking "What is the CSM", and then making the information easy to find and up to date for those who look. It will not have 100% success rate but it will work better than 12.12%

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#15 - 2013-05-06 07:57:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I want this, not because it's a "reward" (I'm not sure it's going to incentivise many to actually vote) but because it will be useful to the CSM itself..


How?


So we know whether we're reading a post made by a voter.

That even from my point of view as a non-CSM member would be helpful. It would also allow study of threadnaughts ect.. to see if they are filled primarily with voters or non-voters and in what percentage.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-05-06 08:26:05 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
So we know whether we're reading a post made by a voter.


Yeah uh, that's actually a really great argument NOT to implement something like that.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Frying Doom
#17 - 2013-05-06 08:48:20 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
So we know whether we're reading a post made by a voter.


Yeah uh, that's actually a really great argument NOT to implement something like that.

Now I really do fail to see even a glimmer of an argument in that, other than it might encourage people to vote, subsequently making the voting power of Goonswarm less in comparison.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-05-06 09:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
Now I really do fail to see even a glimmer of an argument in that, other than it might encourage people to vote, subsequently making the voting power of Goonswarm less in comparison.


There are very legitimate reasons not to vote in any political process. This increases even moreso with Eve, as characters have to be past a certain age or active subscribed time to be eligible to vote. Right there you're telling newbros and everyone who may not have resubbed in time to be eligible to **** off and wait until next year.

There's also the wrinkle of this year having an ugly combo of a very narrow candidate pool AND no option to abstain. I guess anyone who was affected by this (Lowsec and FW, anyone?) is **** out of luck as well!

The whole thing has a really ugly scarlet letter feel to it, and having an active CSM openly admitting that whether or not you voted being something worth considering gives the whole process a very exclusive feel, rather than the inclusive one we should all be striving for.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

Frying Doom
#19 - 2013-05-06 09:17:59 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Now I really do fail to see even a glimmer of an argument in that, other than it might encourage people to vote, subsequently making the voting power of Goonswarm less in comparison.


There are very legitimate reasons not to vote in any political process. This increases even moreso with Eve, as characters have to be past a certain age or active subscribed time to be eligible to vote. Right there you're telling newbros and everyone who may not have resubbed in time to be eligible to **** off and wait until next year.

There's also the wrinkle of this year having an ugly combo of a very narrow candidate pool AND no option to abstain. I guess anyone who was affected by this (Lowsec and FW, anyone?) is **** out of luck as well!

The whole thing has a really ugly scarlet letter feel to it, and having an active CSM openly admitting that whether or not you voted being something worth considering gives the whole process a very exclusive feel, rather than the inclusive one we should all be striving for.

Yes characters under 30 days are unable to vote but that is a very tiny percentage of the number of eligible voters at the time of an election.

CSM White Paper wrote:
VOTER ELIGIBILITY
Any active EVE Online account that is at least a full thirty (30) days in age
is eligible to vote. Only one vote per account — not per character — is permitted. The thirty-day account exclusion rule is to limit undue metagaming influence in the election, and is in line with the precepts of a modern democracy that imposes a minimum age for voting privileges. The only exclusion rule for voting is CCP employee accounts, which are ineligible. Affiliates,volunteers, partners, and interns are permitted to vote.

As you can see from the above "active subscribed time to be eligible to vote" is a load of crap, as that is the loop hole that exists and I complain about every year. Old accounts that are reactivated are eligible to vote.

I do agree that the abstain button needs to be returned, it is every persons right to abstain if they so choose, so they appear as a recognized number.

The tag will add visibility to the CSM and increase the number of voters for next year. It will also allow people to recognize and better understand why people may be choosing not to vote, subsequently allowing for better strategies to get people to vote next time.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-05-06 09:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes characters under 30 days are unable to vote but that is a very tiny percentage of the number of eligible voters at the time of an election. .


Got a source for that assumption? A real source, not your best guess.

Even if it's a "tiny" number, you could be dissuading people from participating in the future just as easily as you could be engaging them. Remember, these are people who could well be providing valuable input (esp. since the new player experience is garbage), and you're backing a tag that basically says "It's ok to listen to me" that they could not have had.

Frying Doom wrote:
As you can see from the above "active subscribed time to be eligible to vote" is a load of crap, as that is the loop hole that exists and I complain about every year. Old accounts that are reactivated are eligible to vote.


I'll concede this one (though I still feel like I'd read somewhere that accounts had to be subbed a certain amount of time. I could be mistaken). Still doesn't address the other issues.

Frying Doom wrote:
The tag will add visibility to the CSM and increase the number of voters for next year. It will also allow people to recognize and better understand why people may be choosing not to vote, subsequently allowing for better strategies to get people to vote next time.


It will increase visibility on the forums only. You have no idea if that'd translate into more votes or not. Also how on Earth would such a tag help anyone understand why someone voted or not? Seems to me that by even pushing for this tag (and the associated "you didn't vote? **** you" that goes along with it) you'd actually be moving further away from ever finding out why someone might want to vote but isn't.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["

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