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ISK / Intersteller Kredits what are they?
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Adunh Slavy
#21 - 2013-05-06 13:21:59 UTC
Juwi Kotch wrote:
In any given universe with a common physical ruleset and erratic distribution of resources there is only one common demonitor which could serve as such: Time.


That is already the case for Eve ISK.

From an RP perspective, ISK is a fiat currency backed by nothing.

From a mechanic perspective, ISK requires time and effort to produce, labor. The applicable time and effort are those activities that are focused on ISK faucets, such as shooting rats. Time and effort spent on trade or manufacturing do not produce ISK. Non-Faucet activities are traded for the time and effort expended in the past, that produced ISK.

ISK is an abstraction of labor, and in that sense, ISK is a commodity money.


CCP set the market to use ISK as one half of every transaction, in so doing, they forced a condition that makes ISK the most sellable and most commonly traded item in the game. It is the market interface that makes ISK money. ISK didn't evolve as a commodity money as happens in the real world, and in that sense, ISK is fiat.

Bottom line, ISK has both fiat and non-fiat attributes.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#22 - 2013-05-06 16:19:57 UTC
ISK is ultimately tied to mechanisms that create almost inevitable demand for it - mechanisms such as clones (the only way to not lose SP when podded is to spend ISK to make sure your clone is up to date), NPC seeded goods such as blueprints, various taxes and fees etc - every sink ultimately creates demand for it. If anyone reading has lost their faith in this terrible fiat currency, i'd be happy to take that burden off your hands (send to this char plz).

Faucet activities are designed to be available to all players, this is similar to a job guarantee - in this sense, eve has 'full employment'

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.
Juwi Kotch
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-05-06 18:47:09 UTC
ISK misses the most important attribute of money - relevance. It is as much game money as a monolopy bill (with which you can buy a hotel on your street next year as well, guaranteed!). You can't use ISK in RL, and a currency which is not accepted anywhere in the world as money is by definition not money.

On the other hand, in the virtual world of EVE you can simulate economic behaviour with ISK. There are means to get ISK, and a lot of things in this world is out of reach and accessible for you, when you don't have ISK. The behavioural aspects around getting and spending ISK is in fact comparable to most RL currencies.

The question if ISK is Fiat Money or Commoditiy Money is easily to be answered: ISK is generated out of thin air - you kill a pirate, or you complete a mission and poof, ISK appears in your wallet. Nowhere you can witness the emergence of Fiat Money better than in EVE (or other MMORPGs). There is absolutely no commodity behind ISK, not even Tritanium or a basket of minerals. To get this 1 million bounty for a killed pirate battleship, at no place an asteroid had to be mined before, and the availiability of ISK is not dependent on the availability of any other item in game.

Creation of money is not the same as payment for labour. You need the money first, before you can pay for labour with it. Unfortunately, ISK does not even employ time as an agent to provide worth to it, since there is no fixed relation between time and money in EVE. You can get much more or much less ISK per hour depending on what you do where and with which skills and means.

"Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime, and every kindness, we birth our future." Sonmi-451
Adunh Slavy
#24 - 2013-05-06 20:32:08 UTC
Juwi Kotch wrote:
ISK misses the most important attribute of money - relevance. It is as much game money as a monolopy bill (with which you can buy a hotel on your street next year as well, guaranteed!). You can't use ISK in RL, and a currency which is not accepted anywhere in the world as money is by definition not money.


Wrong. Just because I can't use an Iranian Rial in Washington D.C., doesn't mean it is not money.

Juwi Kotch wrote:

On the other hand, in the virtual world of EVE you can simulate economic behaviour with ISK. There are means to get ISK, and a lot of things in this world is out of reach and accessible for you, when you don't have ISK. The behavioural aspects around getting and spending ISK is in fact comparable to most RL currencies.


Economic behavior in Eve is not simulated, real people are making real value judgements. Please send me 100 million of your ISK and I will prove it to you. Oh you're not going to send me 100 million ISK? Why not? Because I just proved it to you.

Juwi Kotch wrote:

The question if ISK is Fiat Money or Commoditiy Money is easily to be answered: ISK is generated out of thin air - you kill a pirate, or you complete a mission and poof, ISK appears in your wallet. Nowhere you can witness the emergence of Fiat Money better than in EVE (or other MMORPGs). There is absolutely no commodity behind ISK, not even Tritanium or a basket of minerals. To get this 1 million bounty for a killed pirate battleship, at no place an asteroid had to be mined before, and the availiability of ISK is not dependent on the availability of any other item in game.


The availability of ISK is dependent upon players willigness to go and get it. To spend their time and effort to collect it. You are confusing the meaning of the phrase, "created out of nothing".

Trit is also "created out of nothing", but you are using trit as the example as a backing for ISK.

Just as a player must expend time and effort to collect trit, created out of nothing, a player must also expend time and effort to collect ISK. Would you all of a sudden consider ISK a "thing" if CCP would place a little icon in your hangar and put the moniker on it "ISK" ?

Juwi Kotch wrote:

Creation of money is not the same as payment for labour. You need the money first, before you can pay for labour with it.


Wrong. If gold were the only item used as money, then a person could go and spend thier time and their effort, their labor, to find some gold - poof, they have some money. All Commodity Money shares this attribute, it requires time and effort to produce, labor.

Juwi Kotch wrote:

Unfortunately, ISK does not even employ time as an agent to provide worth to it, since there is no fixed relation between time and money in EVE. You can get much more or much less ISK per hour depending on what you do where and with which skills and means.



And that is one of the interesting aspects of Eve. YOU choose how to spend your time and your effort. There is no nany state holding your hand, giving you minimum wage and wipping your nose for you with nationalised health care services.

In this thread, a wilful or perhaps misguided distortion of context has been employed, between mechanics and lore. It serves no purpose.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#25 - 2013-05-06 21:45:30 UTC
Interstellar credits is what the entire marketplace revolves around, created from your communications with Concord, from scamming to outright item exchanges to being a Medium for PLEX conversion to and from ISK.

what im trying to say here is, is best described in this picture here:
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