EVE General Discussion

Well, I'm half way through my 1 month resub special and I have yet to see any people that I used to know log in to actually FIS. My old corp friends seem to have stopped logging in as have all the people I knew in other corps. Can't rejoin my old corp since nobody is there to even take an application so I been looking at other groups but their recruiters aren't even logging in. I have been checking in multiple time zones and sending emails but people just aren't there. Have low sec and null depopulated that much since July? I'm beginning to think people are just logging in for forum pvp and to check skills. I think CCP has more problems than just tweeking the game if this is how things have become. Moving people around is the least of your concerns.

lone wolf only works if pvp. you cannot lone wolf yourway into 0.0 and expect anything of the above. 0.0 is for fighting AND meanwhile making some isk BUT you got to go for the fights. Anyone that does the reverse alone will only end up dead. It may work a bit in 0.0 empire space but still be frustrating hard for lone wolf miner. You can do NPC missions in 0.0 empire space but you will have to join some kind of large entity. NPC missions are guarded by large powerful and agressive entities.
But if you join those entities, you will have to take orders and work in group for the best of all.

i do not agree. nothing is impossible.
give small groups of players a chance to easily invade and hold a system, and fragmentation will start on it's own. similar to posfueling, but on a much smaller timescale.

just a random idea: systems need constant maintenance of some sort. e.g. scan a hidden place, extract some special items, feed a sov structure with it. this has to be done at least 2 to 3 times a week or your sov is gone, maybe even more often.

with such a system, it would be impossible, even for large corps, to hold large areas of space. no one will do that kind of work to hold a large amount of systems for a long time.

it would however easily be possible for smaller groups of players to hold just one system. 5 people can easily do that kind of maintenance in a round-robin scheme, and as long as they do, the system is theirs (big defence bonuses or whatever). make system ownership not solely dependent on the power of your supercap fleet, but on the work required to actually hold sov in a system.

couple that with 0.0 industry/market changes and fragmentation ahoy!

(this, to repeat myself, was just a random idea. i'm sure there are more ideas like this)

Personally I love lowsec, have been to -10 and back now more times than I can remember and have enjoyed it. I have lived in null a few times and have no desire at all to go back. Politics, drama, playing the game as a second job and killmail mining where targeting an enemy and pressing f1 to watch him melt in 2 seconds if your lucky enough not to be in a slide show is hardcore pvp. The other part was the massive bot abuse in null, blatantly obvious and not a **** is given, not even by CCP.

There is no real incentive to get a highsec player out there, you can make a better income than most null dwellers in highsec as an individual and obtain practically anything you desire without the bullshit.

Giant napfest that exist on vast swaths of empty space living on tech welfare does not make null appealing in the slightest. There is truly no dynamic that encourages smaller scale warfare or combat that doesn't border on tedium.

Right now null is where a lot of players wait around to go to, spend a lot of time waiting for it expecting to find out what the games all about only to be sorely disappointed.

yea... that... remove mineral drops from drones...

Sort out the capital mess and make Null sec more profitable.

Seriously though, the Cap blob fest that is now Null sec is pathetic.

A gang of 20+ of us were chased for 30+ jumps out of null sec because 2/3 God damn T3's were cynoing Super/Sub caps in on engage over and over.

That was the last roam I went on about 2/3 months back, I just gave up.

Whatever happened to the strategic part of Null sec PvP?

I'm pretty old now :>


Emprie space has some advantages i do not get in 0.0.

I get instant pvp if i like to. No Fleet forming ups etc etc. Empire wardec is pvp @ undock.
Ability to be self sufficient without long transport routes.
Not much structure or administration needed. No Bills, No Sov. No Paranoid ppl.

What would make 0.0 more appealing...
- Removal of sov space (No hughe fees, no empererors, no complicated structures)
- No Local
- Jump mass Limit on mass leaving/entering system via gate or portal.
- I am 100% reliant on alliance/corp with transports if i do not want to spent ages for transports.
- Too time consuming because of logistic, scouting, organisation.

My Visions for 0.0
-WH Space is a much ebtter design.
-Easy Logistics
-Difficult Blob Warfare
-Team driven Content
-Not that time consuming.

I will never more enter 0.0. I've seen it all and i definitly prefer a less time consuming and more relaxing way of life.
WH Space > 0.0

1. Fit cloak
2. LOL alliances
3. Drop cloak again. Most of 0.0 is empty anyway

Go roam RA space. They've become a bit less adventurous with their supers lately

People generally want what is in their best interest, and pursue avenues that either offer the most attractive risk-to-reward ratio, or the most effort-to-reward ratio.

It's not rocket science: Null-sec does not pass risk-benefit analysis, and/or is not in players' best interest to visit. Therefore, players avoid null-sec. Not only does null-sec fail risk-benefit analysis, but it's also very inaccessible, further discouraging players - every system is claimed by someone, and generally they are paranoid, untrusting people who are very jealous of the vacuum they inhabit. In short: Null-sec is just not worth the risk and effort.

What would get me into null-sec? Simple changes: Making null-sec more rewarding, breaking up the current monopolies, and then instating game mechanics that would prevent those monopolies from forming in the future. I understand; EVE is "Capitalism 101" and monopolies are a valid part of capitalism... however, EVE is also a game that is meant to be fun, and it's also touted as a "sandbox". Having 3 or 4 mega-Coaliations owning all of null-sec reduces the sandbox effect: Those areas of space might as well not even exist for 95% of the player-base. It also makes null-sec players bored: When null-sec players cry about hi-sec, what they're really expressing is their desire for more null-sec. Therefore, CCP should add more null-sec.

Most of EVE should be a null-sec sandbox. But it should be accessible via "safe zones" - leave Empire space alone, leave lo-sec alone... but expand null-sec outward, add more systems/density, and intersperse it with hi-sec zones which are accessible via gigantic "wormhole gates" located in hi-sec. In effect, EVE should be huge swathes of null-space with hi-sec areas mixed within.

I drew a picture: Imagine the grey areas are Empire space/hi-sec. The red area is low-sec, and the black lines represent the path of the gigantic "wormhole jumpgates". I left null-sec white. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/41879035/what.png

Null-sec needs to be broken up, that's all there is to it. There's no reason that 1 Alliance should claim a huge area of space, and then form a "Coalition" with x-number of other Alliances, thereby effectively owning half the map. This reduces the sandbox.

There needs to be a smaller hard-cap on the number of members in a Corporation, and a smaller hard-cap on the number of member Corps in an Alliance. 1301 people in a single Corporation is just a ridiculous number, and 10 Corporations in an Alliance is similarly nonsense (13k people? Really?). I won't propose exact numbers here, but in my fantasy, there's around 100 members max for a Corp, and 5 Corporations max for an Alliance. This sounds fairly reasonable to me. And there needs to be a limit to the number of Alliances that can be set blue by any given Alliance, and it must be consensual - what I mean is, when an Alliance sets another Alliance blue, the second Alliance must consent and also set them blue. I won't propose exact numbers, but 2 or 3 Alliances forming a coalition sounds about right to me. This means you have 3 groups of 500 players coming together to form a group containing 1,500 players.

I'm sure a lot of you will think this sounds insane. But it has real life precedents. And there's a method to the madness: I would propose, along with limits to the numbers of members an Alliance can hold, that an Alliances needs to have a cap on the number of systems it can claim. Maybe 1 Corp can claim 1 - 3 systems, and an Alliance grows by having more members Corps. This would encourage an Alliance to seek member-Corps, and due to additional game mechanics I will propose, Corps will want to seek membership in an Alliance.

Corporations operating in null-sec would have the option of installing "guns" near their gates. These "Corp-guns" will not be very powerful - it may discourage a group of 2 or 3 Frigates from exploring, but would do little against a larger gang. However, an Alliance would be able to set up much stronger guns. In short, null-sec space that is owned by players would be fortified to a certain extent.

This will encourage smaller, and hence, more active groups of players. There would be real conflict over resources, and there would be more strategy behind lighting a cyno.

When an Alliance is formed, it can have (rent/own, whatever), 1 station that functions similarly to current hi-sec stations, except there's no market and there's only basic services (storage/repair/clones). This station will be placed in the "Alliance Hub", which is basically the capitol system of the Alliance. Capitol systems will be more heavily fortified. So while it may be easy to take space, it's harder to completely remove an Alliance from null-sec.

I believe all these changes will encourage null-sec play. It will be possible for an Alliance to form in hi-sec and then push it's way through lo-sec into null-sec and claim space, because Alliances and Coalitions will be limited. This will make null-sec the wartorn wasteland that we all want, while at the same time giving players access to profitable areas of space that they feel represent realistic goals.


I'm sure many people will disagree with me (mostly established null-sec Corps who are enjoying a cushy existence). But, as it stands, null-sec is a wasteland that offers players little incentive to explore. And until something is changed, null-sec will remain that way. Period.