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[Updated] How to repopulate nullsec - a question for highsec/WH players (and CCP)

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Maman Brigitte
Death of Rats
#301 - 2011-10-21 07:57:14 UTC
Mecinia Lua wrote:


Add a decloaker bomb to the stealth bomber arsenal. Give it a decent radius say 60km. All it does is turn the module off (just off, not offline), if the pilot is there he can just turn it back on. Downside it turns off friendly as well as foe cloaks.




This and your decloak field thing wouldn't solve the problem at all. Cloakers are at safes and they can't be scanned down, so even a radius of 1,000 km would be totally useless for popping them out.

However, the general concept is not without merit - you could create a "seeker" decloak bomb that acts like a probe or fighter... i.e. enters warp and hunts down the nearest cloaked target (with no additional cooldown on them re-entering cloak) you could allow people to remove afk cloakers without the non-afk cloakers being unduly penalized. If they're not afk, they just recloak.

If anything cloak-wars would become more interesting as people used swarms of such bombs combined with scanners to force bombers to constantly move about or be pinned.
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#302 - 2011-10-21 09:58:25 UTC
Allow for a cloaker to be scanned down. By grid. So you know they're /somewhere/ nearby, but you can't get an exact match. Have the probes for it having a longer cycle time.

Then have a de-cloaker weapon with a long cycle time, activating at the end of the cycle.

Stops afk cloakers, doesn't really affect people who are actually there (who can just warp to another safe point)
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#303 - 2011-10-21 10:15:30 UTC
Adelphie wrote:

So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?


What keeps me out? I have nothing to do. Alliances are too big, too hard to get into, and earning an income and living there are too risky for the small guys to even think about being there. Small corps have nothing to offer to CTA's so eventually they stop x ing up, then stop logging in, then unsub or move back to highsec. NPC null isn't a substitute because highsec income is higher, so there's no reason to live in the space.


Overhaul Dscan!
Snefield Arnson
Golden Phoenix Syndicate
#304 - 2011-10-21 14:07:52 UTC
i sometime think, that the map itselfs forces mega alliances/blocks

we have relatively few gates from high/low --> 0.0 sec
a lot of 0.0 regions are only reachable through other 0.0 regions

everyone needs empire access,so people are forced to work together
with the alliance who holds the high/low sec gates

you can see it on the influence maps, the regions behind the empire gates are all blocks

also a few more gates between regions could be a good thing for roaming
Lharanai
Fools of the Blue Oyster
#305 - 2011-10-21 14:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lharanai
I agree with the majority of what was said here, actually I agree with everything what was said until now as long as the poster put some thought into it and did not just troll, which is actually rare in this thread, strange isn't it?

I do repeat my statements but try to summarize it a little bit

As I said and from what I have read in the forum, null sec is known or received as the playground for hardcore players. It might be an wrong assumption but I am relatively sure that a lot of null sec people moved back to high sec because of time issues, people are getting older in RL, having a job or family and less time for EVE.

The aim should not be bringing carebears (own definition = people who don't want to risk anything) into null, this will not work. The aim should be bringing casual players (*edit in small corps or alliances) into null, but this would require some serious changes, because atm there is no logical reason for casual players going into null (besides roams and out of loyalty to their corp or ally).

But this brings me to another topic, yes it would be nice to add null sec features to casual players, but is it really needed, where does this push to null come from, besides the paranoid feeling that it is pressed by hardcore players* which have nothing to shoot at.

So new question here now

"why do CCP/CSM* want more players in null"

*I just want to point out that nearly all CSM are hardcore players in null, which is okay because getting elected needs dedication and time investment. They might not represent the majority of EVE players but they represent EVE players with far more dedication than casual players.

Seriously, don't take me serious, I MEAN IT...seriously
Muammar al-Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#306 - 2011-10-21 14:13:59 UTC
Death to null sec. Instead, give the solo player more interesting stuff to do. More storyline missions (with better rewards) and branching plot. More reasons to go out and explore. More and better designed solo complexes.

This is the way to save EVE.
Vaako Horizon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#307 - 2011-10-21 14:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaako Horizon
Adelphie wrote:
Rather than another whine thread about nerfing highsec I thought I'd post something with the aim of being constructive and take a look at what can be done to return nullsec to its glory days. I posted a similar comment recently, but thought it would be good to start a new thread to gather ideas of new features to entice people to null.

As a solo/small gang pvper I've noticed that nullsec has become rather stagnant over the past year or so, a lot of the old sov skirmishes are diminishing as people are seemingly content with what they have, and the footholds in 0.0 are too deeply entrenched to allow newer corps/alliances to establish themselves. People looking beyond empire are seemingly choosing to reside in WH space rather than null due to the low barriers to entry, unique gameplay and profitability so the landscape of null is not changing.

It's my opinion that currently the majority of eve stay in highsec because it is convenient, more sociable and easier to get into than nullsec with enough the features to keep people occupied and having fun. It’s possible for the average player to make enough isk in highsec to buy all the ships required relatively easily, so even the more expensive ships are easily accessible. I'm definitely not in the camp of "nerfing" highsec - this will just **** off existing residents and will not bring anything new to the game, but there needs to be a reason to explore other areas of the sandbox – currently CCP does not offer enough of a reason.

To entice players [back] into null there needs to be a big carrot and not a stick. This carrot should be unique, easy to get into and most importantly it should be fun. The problem is I have no idea what that carrot should be because I still happy out in null .

So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Edit - Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrials a meaningful task

The thing this thread has less of is solutions to these problems - what features could CCP implement to improve the above?



For me, its about the pvp... I just dont want to have anything to do with it. it just doesnt appel to me in any way, shape or form.
in terms of low/null, its areas I will never visit because of the chance for pvp.
Igualmentedos
Perkone
Caldari State
#308 - 2011-10-21 15:38:57 UTC
Maman Brigitte wrote:
Mecinia Lua wrote:


Add a decloaker bomb to the stealth bomber arsenal. Give it a decent radius say 60km. All it does is turn the module off (just off, not offline), if the pilot is there he can just turn it back on. Downside it turns off friendly as well as foe cloaks.




This and your decloak field thing wouldn't solve the problem at all. Cloakers are at safes and they can't be scanned down, so even a radius of 1,000 km would be totally useless for popping them out.

However, the general concept is not without merit - you could create a "seeker" decloak bomb that acts like a probe or fighter... i.e. enters warp and hunts down the nearest cloaked target (with no additional cooldown on them re-entering cloak) you could allow people to remove afk cloakers without the non-afk cloakers being unduly penalized. If they're not afk, they just recloak.

If anything cloak-wars would become more interesting as people used swarms of such bombs combined with scanners to force bombers to constantly move about or be pinned.


How about:

1. Grow a pair.
2. AFK cloakers are fine.
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#309 - 2011-10-21 15:54:18 UTC
Muammar al-Amarr wrote:
Death to null sec. Instead, give the solo player more interesting stuff to do. More storyline missions (with better rewards) and branching plot. More reasons to go out and explore. More and better designed solo complexes.

This is the way to save EVE.



Eve isnt a game with alot of scripted content. Try wow they have dungeons and millions of missions. Eve players make the content and its what makes the game good and special.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2011-10-21 16:11:30 UTC
Muammar al-Amarr wrote:
Death to null sec. Instead, give the solo player more interesting stuff to do. More storyline missions (with better rewards) and branching plot. More reasons to go out and explore. More and better designed solo complexes.

This is the way to save EVE.


That is the surest way to kill Eve. Jade constantine made a fantastic post about this point, but I can't find it now.

Basically, Eve only exists because it is niche, take away that niche and it is just an absolutely horrible spaceship game.
Vastek Non
State War Academy
Caldari State
#311 - 2011-10-21 16:14:22 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Muammar al-Amarr wrote:
Death to null sec. Instead, give the solo player more interesting stuff to do. More storyline missions (with better rewards) and branching plot. More reasons to go out and explore. More and better designed solo complexes.

This is the way to save EVE.


That is the surest way to kill Eve. Jade constantine made a fantastic post about this point, but I can't find it now.

Basically, Eve only exists because it is niche, take away that niche and it is just an absolutely horrible spaceship game.


Pretty much this. Its time that everyone accepted that all areas have legitimite uses, and users, be it high, low, null or WH.
Kill one and you likely will kill them all.
Just because we kill each other in game doesn't mean we need to be retards and try to score points at the expense of the game, out of it. That way we all lose.

(and yes it did hurt to agree with a TEST/GS alt Lol )
xh'neivers
House of Carrikk
#312 - 2011-10-21 16:17:21 UTC
Maman Brigitte wrote:


As it is, drone regions require an advanced infrastructure to exploit, and punishes groups that cannot work together seamlessly. Drone goo makes the drone regions a very different EVE experience, one which switching to bounties would destroy.

Plus, if that's not enough reason for you, turning drones into bounty rats would turn on a new isk-faucet without turning on a new isk-sink. The result might be inflation. Mineral prices would go up, but not because more people were mining, instead because the value of isk would be dropping.


I'm sorry, your argument for not removing drone loot is that it would mean you would have to mine for the materials that are available because your in 0.0 anyway?

0.o

What, you mean like almost everyone else?
Muammar al-Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#313 - 2011-10-21 16:24:14 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:

Basically, Eve only exists because it is niche, take away that niche and it is just an absolutely horrible spaceship game.

I thought being a spaceship game was its niche.
Lyubov Petrovskaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#314 - 2011-10-21 16:32:02 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Muammar al-Amarr wrote:
Death to null sec. Instead, give the solo player more interesting stuff to do. More storyline missions (with better rewards) and branching plot. More reasons to go out and explore. More and better designed solo complexes.

This is the way to save EVE.



Eve isnt a game with alot of scripted content. Try wow they have dungeons and millions of missions. Eve players make the content and its what makes the game good and special.


I think Manfred (and the people deriding this remark) make a good point here, but what is motivating Muammar to write what he wrote shouldn't be totally dismissed either. As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread a lot of what keeps me out of null-sec and in w-space is that I feel like that regardless of how skilled or knowledgeable I become with EvE I can't make a significant contribution to what goes on in 0.0 right now with the couple of hours I have to play each day.

For example, when I was living in the north as part of NC our corp had a great FC who was the most talented black-ops FC I've ever met or worked with. We used to have hugely entertaining black-ops roams that were a ton of fun and just made everyone involved feel like, "Hey, we're doing something really cool here."

The problem was at the end of the day a couple of hours of really good roaming might net us a couple of battle-cruiser kills...and that was it. What we were doing, while entertaining, didn't matter one bit in the larger context of 0.0 (i.e. Sov) - or even to our alliance.

As a lot of people have pointed out, it would be more attractive to be in null if you could do something like a black-ops roam that would have more impact or importance that just annoying a couple of careless ratters.

As I've mentioned in earlier posts as well, I'm not even sure 0.0 needs to be fixed as there seem to be plenty of people out there and enjoying it right now and much as I'd hate to have WHs (the part of the game I like to play) "ruined" or changed I'm sure if 0.0 were changed in the wrong way it could ruin that part of the game for people who do enjoy being "hardcore" big alliance types doing the super-cap blob thing.

That being said, I'll continue to contribute to the thread in the spirit of "What would get me back to null?" while realizing that getting me or the type of player like me may not actually be important or desirable. :-)
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2011-10-21 17:44:53 UTC
Adelphie wrote:

So my question to non-null sec players - What keeps you out of null, and what features would you like to see which might entice you to venture out here?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Edit - Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.

The major frustrations seem to be:

- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrials a meaningful task

The thing this thread has less of is solutions to these problems - what features could CCP implement to improve the above?


The things you've added above. As well as barriers to transition that face would be null-secers.


  • Lack of graduated risk in the transition (ie 0.0 should be more dangerous than low). Risk transition should be far more smooth right from 1.0 to 0.0. As it stands there is no significant change from 1.0 to 0.5 then a sudden bump, then nothing from 0.4 to 0.1 then a final bump. Its important that low sec is safer than null sec.
  • Lack of meaningful solo/small gang and small corp roles. Everything CCP does is geared towards large organised fleets.
  • Existence of game mechanics that are unique to 0.0, and hence high sec players can't familiarise themselves with (except the expensive way)


The problem is really that WH is more attractive proposition for many.

To fix.

1 - bump nullsec rewards so its more profitable (including ship losses) for all game-play styles, right now it isn't, no matter what anyone says to the contrary.
2 - make .5/.6 more dangerous so people get used to being blown up more
3 - make .4/.3 slightly less dangerous around gates and stations
4 - allow all tech in high sec, fixing mechanics that it breaks in the process properly.
5 - add more space
6 - add more/easier jump off points that are not useful to sov alliances, but are to high seccers wishing to dabble
7 - rework mechanics so that small gangs are more surviveable (maybe do something with cruisers).


betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2011-10-21 17:53:49 UTC
Alice Katsuko wrote:

Quite a few folk seem to think that nullsec should cater to their personal playstyle, regardless of whether that playstyle has any real relationship with what the purpose of nullsec is.

....

Nullsec was never meant to be a playground for small gangs, though small gangs are not uncommon there outside of giant sovereignty fights; nullsec was never meant to be a solo PvP wonderland, although solo PvP can be found there. Nullsec is instead about cooperation and player enterprise, and what happens when the interests of two groups of players collide.


Where is the charter defining what nullsec was for?
Strike Severasse
#317 - 2011-10-21 18:30:34 UTC
Adelphie wrote:
.....

Edit - Some really good discussion so far of what's keeping people out of null.
The major frustrations seem to be:
- Lack of things for the casual gamer to participate in
- Lack of accessibility outside of major alliances
- Failure to give industrials a meaningful task
The thing this thread has less of is solutions to these problems - what features could CCP implement to improve the above?


One simple change would fix it all, ONE quick change now.

OPEN the gates to Null and Low

1) GATE ALERT BEACONS!!! of ships parking on the other side, say a counter of ships withing 150k???

Now we see the risk, and take our chances!! Blind chance is stupid, informed chance is calculated.

ALSO Perhaps MORE GATES!!! else pop-out the other side at 150k???

2) CHANGE the variable of 15k from Gate to 150k FROM GATE, they can camp still, its just not easy pickings anymore!!! Problem solved and Null gets lots of visitors. 5 minutes to implement.

.
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#318 - 2011-10-21 18:57:40 UTC
It was probably suggested before, but I think CCP should find a way to make the Eve galaxy “feel” way bigger.

One thing I quickly realized when I started playing is that, the sand box is not that big. It makes no sense to me to see a major alliance able to bring a kitchen sink task force halfway through the galaxy in just a few hours. Traveling across the galaxy should take much more time!!! A major alliance (or coalition) that decides to localize the majority of its offensive assets in one area should run the risk of getting attacked and loose systems in another area. Right now, it is not really the case and it probably explains why “blob” size engagements have become the norm in 0.0.

I am sure there could be some downsides to this however, I am certain it would still bring the game to a new level of fun and entertainment If it took more time to move across regions, major blocks would be forced to “divide” their fleets and by the same time, it would provide more opportunities for smaller fights. On the long run, It could give Eve players a brand new sand box and CCP…. lots of new customers.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2011-10-21 19:04:02 UTC
I agree with the above. You shouldn't be able to project power nearly as far as you can.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#320 - 2011-10-21 19:10:16 UTC
One thing that would really kick the butt, and I would like to see in all of Eve, is the ability to warp from one system to the other with your own jump drive, just like we have seen in Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

Let's face it, the bubble/blob camp is the one thing that kills (lots of stuff) small gangs and provides gank pipelines.

There is in place the mechanics for scanning and the specialized ships needed to defend systems from intruders if such existing mechanics and workarounds by players that have brought us the bubble camp, cloaky scouts, and disposable gate alts (Some are bots as I have seen ) are removed.

There is such a thing as a deep space scanner probe, for which there is no use - though combat probes can reach across smaller systems.

But the warp bubble gets way more use.

Just the difference in need or use for those two items is indication of where the game went, or where it could go.

Gates have to go for 0.0 to become interesting for both defenders and intruders. At the least, being deposited randomly into the target system would be an improvement.

At the present rate, no matter what anyone says, the ratio of "work" to profit is skewed. Even if high sec players could be convinced that they liked getting blobbed and ganked, eventually they run out of ships and ISK and cannot keep coming back, lets only in a rookie ship and there will still be those liking everything in the current form who will camp up to destroy those noob ships.


Get rid of gates or make ships that can jump without them, without having to be a JF, like a low slot module or rig, and even I would leave high sec behind forever.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!