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Useless GILA & scout drones
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Anatolyevich RUSSIAN
0100 bit Republic
#1 - 2013-05-03 20:05:17 UTC
I have made a petition about it, but was redirected to the forum. Here we go.
I finally have gained some isk for my little dream which GILA used to be.
Have bought one, fitted for PVE (lvl 3 missions), stocked with OGREs (heavy attack drones) and went for a lvl 3 security mission.
So the point of all the topic is... DEATH. But not a ship, but drones.
So Gila, which is a sort of micro-carrier (400m^3 & 125mbit/sec bandwith for drones) have no any other highlits. So drones are the main point of this cruiser.
Buy the way, With my skills and setup I had 285dps by drones & around 30dps by missiles. So everything this GILA is needed is for carrying 5 heavy attack drones.

Ok. What I can not understand is... WHY DRONES DIE SO FAST!!!
I have lost fill drone bay of heavy attack drones and couldn't finish lvl 3 mission with 16 of em. Had to go for another 16 drones. And it happened because even if I attack NPC with my missiles first and just after that launch drones, NPC start attacking my drones instead of me even while drones are still on the way to NPC.
I was disappointed with me being had to HIDE MY DRONES FROM npc..

Whattahell????
I have GILA which is entitled to carry drones and use it against NPC. WHY I have to hide em instead of using em as fighters?
And you could ask, why I was hiding em indeed?
Because I could have lost at least 1 of em on drones' way to NPC (35kms away max for me) and then all the rest in just seconds as heavy attack drones are weak against NPC's cruisers and battlecruisers.

So, dear DEV team, Why, WHY NPC attack drones right the way after launching em? Why drones die so fast? Why ~250kk pirate fraction cruiser is so expensive and so useless? Why there is no way to keep all the NPC's damage being taken by ship and not drones?
And finally, What is the point of having scout drones in the game if they are being attacked so much and killed so fast?
Baggo Hammers
#2 - 2013-05-03 20:09:18 UTC
The Gila is fine. The fault lies elsewhere......


or maybe...0/10

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#3 - 2013-05-03 20:16:07 UTC
Bigger isn't always better. Sometimes its all in how you use it. Try MWDing right up to the rats, webbing them, and dropping your heavies on their face. Or drop sentries and snipe. Or use mediums or lights. Or MWD up to the rats and use smartbombs.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Ginger Barbarella
#4 - 2013-05-03 20:20:08 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
...stocked with OGREs (heavy attack drones) and went for a lvl 3 security mission.



I see your first mistake (and the critical one).

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN
0100 bit Republic
#5 - 2013-05-03 20:23:25 UTC
Then there seems to be no use for heavy drones.
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN
0100 bit Republic
#6 - 2013-05-03 20:28:24 UTC
This topic is not more about GILA or lvl3 missions, but about medium & heavy drones (slow, powerful and weak at the same time).
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#7 - 2013-05-03 20:41:11 UTC
Maybe 16 heavy drones aren't as efficient as you thought they would be. You could try experimenting with some other drones instead.

Oh god.
Haulie Berry
#8 - 2013-05-03 20:43:54 UTC
I carry exactly zero heavy drones in my Ishtar.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2013-05-03 20:46:59 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
So, dear DEV team, Why, WHY NPC attack drones right the way after launching em? Why drones die so fast?

Because quite a few people warped into missions or complexes, aggroed all the NPCs, dopped sentries/heavy drones, and went AFK.

CCP responded by adding in the Sleeper A.I. to all NPCs to prevent this.

Drone boats can still be used in missions... but they can't use the drop sentries and kite/go afk tactics the way they used to.

Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Why ~250kk pirate fraction cruiser is so expensive and so useless?

Because not all ships excel at PvE... the same way not all ships are good in PvP?

How did you Veterans start?
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN
0100 bit Republic
#10 - 2013-05-03 20:53:44 UTC
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2013-05-03 21:00:55 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?

You. Don't.

Use Sentry Drones and attack at long range.

Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???

Because it is a pirate faction ship that is rare. The higher cost of a ship, mod, weapon, or ammo does not always mean it is "better."

How did you Veterans start?
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#12 - 2013-05-03 21:23:42 UTC
Don't use mediums until all the frigates are dead--use lights to kill frigates first.
Don't use heavies until all the cruisers are dead--use mediums to kill cruisers.
Then use heavies/sentries to kill battleships.
Don't launch your drones until everything on grid is redboxing you.
Ideally, don't launch drones until you're within 10-20km of the NPCs.
When a new wave spawns, recall your drones until everything new is redboxing you.
While you have drones out, keep an eye either on their hp or the overview. If their HP starts dropping or the NPCs switch to just yellowboxing you instead of redboxing, recall drones immediately.
Fit remote reps in your highslots and use them to keep drones on the field longer.

Honestly, I think they went a bit too far in the other direction with the AI changes around targeting drones. It's a good thing that drones are no longer the AFKWIN weapon system. It's notsogood that drones now require far more micromanagement than other weapon systems. It almost makes them more trouble than they're worth in some cases.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-05-03 21:25:49 UTC
Face: hey palm we should stop bumping into each other like this.

Art of Explosions
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-05-03 21:33:53 UTC
If the rat A.I. outsmarts you, you might want to try mining.
For L3s, just carry sentries for long range and switch to lights for frigs that get close.
You also have missiles btw. Keep firing them and the rats won't target drones as often.
There's always a way around it. Same with TD Sansha rats. If you can adapt, you can succeed.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-05-03 21:36:58 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.
Hakaimono
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-05-03 21:42:26 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.

Why should they make heavies viable for pve? I dont see why they need to cater to pve. Sentries are doing the job well enough.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-05-03 22:19:31 UTC
Hakaimono wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.

Why should they make heavies viable for pve? I dont see why they need to cater to pve. Sentries are doing the job well enough.


^See? Even trolls won't dispute the fact that CCP broke heavy drones, then refused to fix them as they did with lights and meds.
Ginger Barbarella
#18 - 2013-05-03 22:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ginger Barbarella
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Then there seems to be no use for heavy drones.


I think I've used heavies all of two times in my years here, and haven't looked back. You'll get the most use (in general) out of Sentries for killing at range, followed by lights for up close and mediums for bigger ships at (around) 20 or so KM. With the Gila I use Sentry IIs for killing at range, HAMs for mid-close, and lights for close. I keep mediums on hand just in case, but I honestly don't use them that often.

On ships like the Domi (Navy Domi is preferred) I make heavy use out of Sentries, and then send in the lights for close-mid range. Rarely even bother firing up the hybrids. I just don't find any use for Heavy drones whatsoever. They're slow to get to target, slow to recall, and easy to kill. Not worth the effort. The sentries project the dps very well, easy to get out, easy to recall. If they take damage I just use a remote repper to fix 'em up.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Nagnor
The Happy Shooters
#19 - 2013-05-03 22:35:55 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:
Ok. After all the updates they made, what's the use for that setup of gila with heavy drones onboard?
Obviously it's not handy any longer against NPC and there is no advantage in high drones' damage of almost 300 dps.
How do we use heavy drones now?
And after all, why GILA is still so expensive (even though it became useless now)???


Noob whine aside, your point about current state of heavy drones is right on. Npc aggro has killed their viability completely, unlike smaller drones and sentries. Even forum trolls here would have trouble disputing this.

Unlike smaller drones, all sized rats aggro heavy drones. Unlike sentries, they have no tank and can't be scooped instantly. Between BS volley, low speed, and full aggro, there's zero chance to pull them back in time.

The aggro based on size implemented soon after rat AI was added fixed smaller drones, but left heavies broken. Heavies are the largest, slowest, and most vulnerable, yet CCP devs seem to think they need the most aggro - a sign devs don't actually play this game, especially the pve part of it.


Unfortunately so true. Medium drones have the same problem, although if you are quick and didn't let them go to far out (<30km) , you might save some of them.

If you don't like losing drones, you might try the following:
- Rapid light missiles for frigates up close
- (Faction) Gardes for frigates further out, cruiser/BS up close
- (Faction) Bouncers/Wardens/Curators for cruisers/BS further out
Faction Sentries have 2 times the HP of T2 sentries so that can take some damage.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-05-03 22:36:40 UTC
Anatolyevich RUSSIAN wrote:

Buy the way, With my skills and setup I had 285dps by drones & around 30dps by missiles.


SO not even close to being ready to fly a gila.

Art of Explosions
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