Science & Industry

ok ive been in eve since the last 1/2 of 06 and and i have an odd question that just got shoved to the back burner and never answered. so here it is

ive been in and out of high sec, low sec, and null. but out in null i noticed that there were no mining ops. why is this? major alliences and corps gotta build or import everything from high sec. traders ive seen hell a buddy of mine made LOADS of isk in a blockaded runner and alot of time.
ive kept an eye (at that time) for belt ops but never saw any. and even in recruitment channels when recruiters are out and about for new blood they want combat pilots over the builders and miners anyday.

so my question i guess is really why arent there more miners out there? even before this mineral rebalance stuff i just thought this was odd

There are plenty of miners in null. Just open the game map and set statistics to industry upgrades. Those level 3-4 and 5 systems didn't get that way on their own.

bit of both really. miners don't contribute anything, and there's nothing there of worth.

corps aren't going to go out of their way to accommodate people who have very little to contribute, and if people aren't given a reason to go there then they won't.

neither factor is to blame on it's own, it is a bit of a combination of both, mainly the lack of reason to be in null to be honest. those miners that are there, are there for more than the mining.

I haven't been in that many different alliances, but the ones I have been in have all had mining ops at some frequency.
Usually ice mining is specifically for POS fuel and only done when supplies are getting low and regular mining is for ISK and depends mostly on the individual player.

You will *never* see a miner in null sec though unless they are in your alliance (or coalition for those larger then alliance alliances) because you learn quickly that any neutral in space is worth docking for and waiting out or switching ships and hunting down.

Also many alliances or corps won't specifically recruit for industrialists because it makes them an easy target. If you can go to the forums and easily see Corp X is heavily recruiting for industrialists then you figure out what systems they frequent and go hunt them down or war-dec them and try to intercept their hauling operations to high-sec.

i was mostly referring to corps. mining isn't a taxable activity. refining is, however it's been a while since i was in null and i *think* refining tax goes to the corp that owns the station, not the corp that you belong to. (feel free to correct me if that isn't the case)
so no, miners aren't really contributing anything to the corp in that respect.

odds are they can't fly a combat ship to join CTAs and the like (if they can, why are they mining? ratting is a superior source of isk (or, so i've been led to believe)).

the problem is there's no real synergy between miners, and corps. neither one really has anything to offer the other. the only way miners end up in corps is if the corp has some thing to offer the miner that isn't mining related (eg, pos for research, or some other kind of benefit.)

i'll wager the people that do mine in 0.0 aren't exclusively miners, like some high sec players are (some being me, although i don't think i'm the only one. at least, i hope not)

The nature of miners and PvP'ers dont mix. Miners are not going to make a huge exodus to null to set up the large-scale mining ops that CCP invisions for null without some protection. PvP'ers arent going to sit around all day twitteling thumbs hoping someone might attack the mining op their protecting. There will be some who go and find some success, but most wont go, or quickly turn around and head home to Hi.

As for people suggesting null PvP'ers bring their mining alts back to null, I doubt it. They mine in hi so theycan afk while they PvP their main. They won't be able to do that if they have to babysit their mining alt. The ones that do go, would be dedicated miners, who are awake at the keyboard chatting up while mining. Question is, how long will they stay when they become a primary target with no protection from the crp they mine for?

spod will get mined just as much after odyssey as it does now, in proportion to the other ores in null sec.

There needs to exist a synergy between the mining toons and PvP toons of null sec corps, but currently there is not.

I think in the grand vision of CCP they see miners toiling away in fields to haul in ore that is then turned into ships that the PvPers use to either defend their space or go on the attack. That just isn't happening because of:

a) the player base - as stated by someone in here, miners "contribute nothing". This is both true and false. True in the case that, a miner brought in to a null sec corp isn't forced to sell the ore he/she brings in to the corp/alliance. So that miner can either just sell it outright at whatever price they can get, or make items to sell at whatever price point works out to be profitable. False in the fact that a miner CAN contribute quite a bit to a null corp, but they are seen as not because of the mentality of "They don't play the way I do, so they're wrong". PvP'ers see miners just sitting around with lasers on rocks and think that that's all they do. But if an industrialist turned their production skills to output strictly for corp purposes, you could see corp coffers filled and hangers full of whatever you need.

b) mechanics - Most miners like it safe, and any miner that heads out to null is going to know that it's not safe, but it needs to be made so within reason. Any null-sec corp can have guard toons on standby, but that's not going to help in alot of situations. One cloaker in system will shut down your operations because they know a blop cannot be far behind. I've said on a few occasions where CCP really needs to make a new destroyer that can hunt down cloaked ships, but that doesn't appear to be happening ever. So it's easier to sit in high-sec, mine, build, sell and let the nullers deal with the logistics.


CCP seems to be moving toward making it more expensive to operate large logistics moves to null while at the same time making industry

^^ This, this upcoming patch will benefit miners that are already established in null.

how many already established miners in null rely on the safety of hidden belts for protection against roaming gangs?

With this change that protection will be gone.

Fozzie says this protection will need to be replaced by the corp/alliance combat pilots(PVPers) protecting the mining fleets.

That is not going to happen.

Currently established miners in null will see there risk going up 1000% with only a small boost to profits. If anything this will drive a lot of those established miners out of null sec.